I really didn't mean to be insulting. First of all I hesitated posting in the first place because I don't really know anything about the LD or HD issues. Like even from your post I still don't quite understand. I thought the testosterone issue was about the physical sex act. The closeness and intimacy is then part of the physical touch. Those can be separate issues, right? Anyway you really don't have to prove to me how miserable you are or explain in detail the misery of your life. I believe you and it wouldn't even matter what the issue is. I know that people can be miserable about many things that might not affect someone else the same way. I am truly not telling cemar or you or anyone else for that matter to not want sex or to not be unhappy about it. I'm just trying to encourage behaviors that might help someone out of the situation. If I'm not helping at all, just tell me to stop posting and I will. Trust me I definitely doubt whether I can give any useful advice anyway. I just thought I would try and see.
I wanted to comment because I really feel like whatever the relationship problem is for someone, it usually isn't solved by entirely blaming the other person and counting on them to make all of the changes. I thought that the general philosophy of Deida sounds intriguing. It is similar to the DB principle of working on yourself first. Like I said before, I think that working to become a better you is the first step. If it really doesn't work for the relationship, at least you're in a better place. if you don't work on yourself, the relationship won't get any better AND you won't be in a better place. Seems logical to me to work on yourself. Again, I can't say if things are truly hopeless in your relationships.
As I said before, assuming the my friend's marriage has any similarities to Cemar's (which I truly don't know), I know that the constant pushing and criticizing really affected my friend's sex drive. She didn't feel like she could give him a simple hug, curl up to him on the couch, give him a foot rub or anything without feeling OBLIGATED to have sex. I know how much she loved him and I also know that she was sexually attracted to him and did enjoy sex. Just somewhere along the way both of them got their signals crossed and communication broke down. I believe they are both equally to "blame" for the miscommunication. The issue to me is that the H was the one who pushed it to the point of the breakdown of the marriage. He was the one who became sure that my friend was the cause of all his unhappiness. (Of course I don't know your situations so it may not be applicable.) The thing is that the H had a job that had been frustrating and demeaning for over 5 years, he had been gaining weight, drinking and smoking, and on top of his regular job which included 2 hours of commute time he had added rental properties, a local government position, and started a small business. And yet my friend was the SOLE reason for his stress and unhappiness. And believe me I talked to him enough to know that he was truly unhappy and I never doubted his misery. I just don't think he picked the only solution. But he did pick it and I hope that he will find happiness. I'll just say that he hasn't jumped there overnight and that's even with a great new job 3 months ago.
Maybe you guys are right and you've done everything you can and it's just up to your wives. Honestly that's okay if that's how you feel and that's where things are in your relationships.
I guess I feel like you are fixated on specific things I have written and aren't addressing the overall point. That by doing the work to figure yourselves out more completely you leave the door open to the possibility of change in your relationship. Again I don't see anything wrong with venting and releasing your frustrations here. I think that is useful. But by fixating on your issues and spending all of your time trying to prove how miserable you are in your marriage, it seems like you are just reinforcing the negativity in your life.
I wish all of you the best and hope that somehow you will find ways to have great lives and great marriages.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
