Quote: being positive is the most helpful for me right now. Does that make sense?
It absolutely makes sense.
You are so right that there are heaps of positives in your sitch - I agree it's important to keep focussing on them.
I guess my point really was around regardless of how hard this is for you - he's not getting out of it scott free (and I know you get that too). He's a very troubled and confused man who probably can't believe the mess he's got himself into.
Well done on limiting snooping and being aware of times when you are putting pressure on him.
Keep it up.
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
Thanks for the encouragement, Virginia. I understand what you're saying. I know he's going through a lot right now, too, even though it is different than what I am going through. Even though I felt bad that he said he thought part of the reason he was so tired last night was because he hadn't resolved this, if he was telling me the truth (which I have to just take it for the truth at face value at this point), I'm glad that he at least is thinking about it and that it is bothering him. I hope that comes across like I mean it to. I don't mean to say that I'm glad if he's suffering, because I truly feel horrible if he is, but I'm glad that he is at least thinking about it and (hopefully) wanting to get it resolved.
We'll see what happens from here.
Well, still no call from him yet today, and I still haven't snooped! Still going to wait until the last possible minute to contact him. It's possible that he may not answer his phone when I call, at which point I guess I'll just have to go to the meeting myself. I hope that doesn't happen.
It will be interesting to see how the conversation goes when we do talk next, whenever that may be. I still am not going to bring it up or talk about it unless he does. I'm terrified, nervous, sick to my stomach, and excited all at the same time... God grant me the patience to continue on this roller coaster...
He did finally call me last night about 20 minutes from when I was going to call him, so that was good. Said he was just leaving work but found out from him today that he only worked a little while yesterday, so am presuming he spent the rest of the day with the OW... Anyway, he was very upbeat when he called me and asked for directions where we were going. I DID NOT ASK HIM WHETHER HE HAD TALKED TO THE OW! We talked for a few minutes, and then I said "okay..." like I was going to get off the phone, and HE BROUGHT IT UP! He said that they had "started" talking on Saturday night but that he was so exhausted that he just ended up crashing out. I told him thank you and thanked him for telling me about it. I asked him how it was going, and he said that everything was fine and we're still on schedule. I said no, that I wasn't referring to that but rather was asking how it was going talking to her. He said it was good, that he felt good about the steps he was taking. And that was it. Left it at that. I didn't ask any more questions (even though I wanted to) and just left it at that.
Then I don't remember exactly what the context was, but he called me "sweetie"! That was nice. He has called me that a few times since this all began, but it's usually been when I'm upset about something and talking about the OW or the R, and he says something like "I'm sorry, sweetie" or something like that. But it wasn't in that context at all this time, so that made me feel good. Then we got off the phone.
THEN, he called me back AGAIN and said that he was getting close to our appointment site and that he knew the roads were hard to see to get there and that if I wanted he would wait for me to catch up to where he was and then I could follow him there! I thought that was really nice of him.
So we had a nice dinner appointment, and when we left, he gave me a really big, strong hug (I miss those so very much) and said he'd see me later, baby, or something like that. Two nice things he called me in one night! That was really nice.
Then this morning he called me to ask some business questions, and we had a nice conversation. I had some paperwork to go over with him early this afternoon and called him to see if he was going to be at the apartments. He said he was just grabbing a bite to eat and ASKED ME IF I WANTED TO JOIN HIM! That was really nice! I did, and we talked a bit and went over my paperwork. He did bring up Hawaii referring to something was going to get done before then, and I used that as an opportunity to ask him if we were still going (I know, small backsliding...). He said yes, and smiled and said that we aren't going as business partners... He then thanked me for being so patient. I just said yes and moved on to a different subject. So these are all really positive things I think, and I feel really good about it.
But then I also found our during our conversation today that he wasn't working most of the day yesterday, and although I don't know for sure, I'm presuming that means he spent the day with the OW. So then I was really sad because that meant that even though he was tired on Saturday night that he still didn't take the opportunity on Sunday when he was rested to "finish" the conversation with her that he supposedly "started" on Saturday night.
So now, while I'm really excited about our progress and feel good about that hopefully the DBing that I'm going is working a bit, I'm really sad that he didn't take care of this. I feel like that because I'm being so "patient" that he feels no real need to take care of this anytime soon, although I don't know that for sure. Part of me just wants to scream and yell at him right now and tell him enough is enough already and get this taken care of! And I know I can't do that, as that isn't how I want this to resolve. I truly want him to do this on his own time when he is ready. I guess I just feel like he's taking advantage of the situation of knowing I'm being "patient" and not feeling any pressure from me to get this done.
At this point, I'm going to just keep holding on until Hawaii and see where we are at then. I will keep DBing during that time and will work on making myself less available, even from a business perspective, to see if that helps (maybe he'll miss me?) As you know, it's so very painful right now, and I know that obviously what I have been doing is helping and that I can't go back to my freaking out, crying, needy ways. It might make me feel better briefly but will only send us backwards, and I know that. I guess I was just feeling so good going into today due to the progress we made over the weekend, and then when I found out he probably spent the day with her yesterday and still didn't resolve it, it made me sad... I must just focus on how far we've come and the nice things he's done and said over the past few days and be happy for that and let the negative go.
I still believe him when he says we're going to Hawaii together, but at this point we could be meeting each other at the airport that morning rather than him coming home before then! Ha! 3 weeks and 4 days until Hawaii! I know I can hold on and contain myself for that long... If things go sideways and he's not home by then and we don't go to Hawaii, I'll have to re-think my position. Until then, I will work on continuing to do what I've been doing but continuing to distance myself more and see what happens.
I miss him so very much and just want him to hold me again, to sleep in the same bed with him, to feel "wanted" again. I pray that this is not too far off, and I know I need to keep my head about me and hang in there, that I must continue to go through this pain if I want that end result and that if I "mess up" and freak out, it could put things off even longer, and I don't want that.
Anyway, I was just having a bad "moment" and wanted to vent a bit. However, I need to instead focus on all of the positive things that have happened over the past few days and see that change IS happening for the better and just be patient....
I also realized something else important today... I purposely have not checked up on him as far as checking to see what charges he's been making on his credit card over the past few days. Before I was checking it daily and could tell where he had probably been with "her." While I felt like i wanted to know what he was going, in the end it just ended up making me sick to my stomach, so why was I doing it? At any rate, I worked really hard over the past few days to not check it because I didn't want to feel bad. And I was successful and still haven't checked it! I am going to wark towards not looking at it again before Hawaii. Even though it tells me where he's been, it just ends up hurting, so it's not helping in the long run. So... what I learned TODAY is more of the same in that when I asked him about working yesterday and found out that he did not work most of the day, it just made me feel horrible and ruined my mood. On the one hand, I was glad to know where he was, but in the end, it just made me sad since I knew he most likely had the opportunity yesterday but chose not to take it to continue talking to her. Now I'm upset, and if I just would have kept my mouth shut about it, I wouldn't have known "for sure" and would probably not be as sad right now.
So... I'm going to remember this and not ask questions right now. I have a lot of questions that I do want to ask him at some point, but as I've said on past posts, I think it's best now if I wait until he's home and the waters are a bit more clear until I do that. Then I'll see how I feel and if I still care to know the answers to my questions. Until then, while at least I know where he's at, if I don't like the answer to where he's at, it just hurts, and the hurt outweighs the benefit of finding out that he's NOT with her. Lesson learned!
Great news...now don't start wondering what he is doing or where he went, or how long it will take. That will kill all of your efforts. No more questions...you keep slipping them in, every chance you can...don't ask...let him divulge the information.
You do have a lot of great positives coming your way...you will love Hawaii. I took 57 pictures of just volcanoes and about 15 from the window of the plane when we saw all of the "sandwich islands"...you will have fun.
Thanks, 1210. It's great to hear from you again! I'm glad you posted on my thread. You've been so helpful in being honest and candid with me with your advice and thoughts and opinions. I've really appreciated that.
I know I'll love Hawaii. I don't know if you remember that that is where we got engaged and that we have not been back since. It's kind of ironic, isn't it? It will be nice to hopefully make a "fresh new start" there, where it in a sense all began initially. But this time it will be a fresh new start with an all new resolve to create a magical marriage and to NEVER, EVER be where we are at today, and not even close to it.
I'm still having a hard day today - in and out of tears. I don't know why, as I should be ecstatic at all of the positives that have happened the past few days, and I know I should be proud of the enormous way I've come from where I was at a few weeks ago to where you all have helped me get to today - still a long ways to go, and I've come a long way, too. I guess maybe he got my hopes up on Saturday - even though I told myself it may not happen and wasn't "over the top" excited - and now I just feel even more let down. However, the good that came from that is that HE has brought up the OW and our R a few times on his own now and has also thanked me twice now for being so patient/understanding and also asked me to lunch today and has done some other nice gestures. He's also been much kinder towards me I've noticed, which has been nice. I see a small glimpse of the old H that I love so much but can tell he's still guarding himself from truly letting go. I feel like we will both have a huge crying spell when he does come home and that there will be a big release of built-up emotions, and I so look forward to that...
I have started to (cautiously) think about what to do/how to act/etc. when he does come home. I realize this may NOT happen before Hawaii and that everything may backfire, but at the same time I want to think about the most appropriate way to handle things when he DOES come home, regardless of when that will be. And since for the first time this last weekend HE was the one who actually brought up wanting to resolve things with her, I hope we are a bit closer (although, again, it's still entirely possible that he could have just said that because he was tired and didn't want to go out with me and/or didn't want to be in a social atmosphere with me yet, etc., etc., but I can't think those things - have to stay positive and take it for the truth for now).
At any rate, I would welcome any suggestions from anyone regarding the appropriate "first steps" to take once he does come home. I have some ideas that I will mention eventually but want to see what you all have to say as well.
Thanks again for posting on my thread, 1210. I found your thread a while back and can't find it again. Would you mind pointing me to it? I would love to read about your situation as well.
When he does come home it will be critical that you continue on with your new outlook on life. You will need to be aware of smothering him, over talking him, not even allow him to speak, even if he hesitates to speak - long pauses...let him.
It is easy to fall back into the same scenario that you both once had...it has to be continually nurturing. That means you'll need to be aware of "falling back into that comfortable" feeling - which put you here to begin with.
It means to look outside of your marriage for your own friends to hang out with from time to time. Interests that you alone seek out to learn and try. In other words, allow him to have space...don't always do everything together.
You're feeling apprehensive now, understandably so, somewhat like you doubt this change in him, so suddenly. Doubts and or trust does take time...that clock does not start ticking until he actually comes home, for good. Try not to get yourself worked up...just let things come around in time.
When you go to Hawaii, try, also - not to be overly giddy thinking all is well...have fun, but until he's back, just maintain your emotions...okay. You'll be fine Tam.
As always, thanks so much, 1210. I really, really appreciate your insights and honesty.
I decided to make an excuse to stop by the apartments on my way home tonight to "give him some more business documents." He may see right through me but doesn't let on that he does. Although I was fighting my urge to have a meltdown, I kept my head about me and just talked. No R talk, no OW talk, just talked. I just felt the need to be with him, if only for a few minutes. We had a nice talk, and then I left.
Tomorrow we have a business meeting in the evening. My plan is to not call him or stop by to see him all day, to look stunning, and to just see him at the meeting. I'm working hard to muster up my strength...
I do feel good about the changes over the last few days and don't know that I feel apprehension about it as much as sadness, and I don't know what I feel that way. I guess I'm just sad that he still isn't home and continues to make the choice to be with her. And I worry that this weekend when he told me he wanted to resolve things with her that it was just "talk" on his part, for whatever reason (it doesn't really matter what the reason is). At the same time, if that was the case, I don't know that HE would have brought it up on Sunday night that he had talked to her. I could see if I had been the one to ask him about it, but for him to bring it up was huge for us, so I want to believe him... I'm just hurt I guess. It's so painful to hear someone tell you that they've made the choice to be with you but then their actions are to continue to make the choice to be with someone else. I will be eternally grateful that he made the choice to give our M another chance, and at the same time this hurts so much. I know I've hurt him tremendously and that I have no right to complain at all right now and that he is in the throws himself of basically (if he's telling me the truth) trying to "break up" with someone else. That's never any fun. I'm disappointed and hurt and I guess angry as well that he has waited this long and still hasn't resolved things with her (after telling me over two months ago now that he had made his decision). I think "the clock is ticking" now as far as Hawaii coming upon us and that maybe he's starting to feel some pressure. I almost feel like he's just procrastinating because this is so hard for him to do and may wait until what he views is "the last possible minute" to deal with this. Then again, he may not deal with it at all and this whole thing could blow up in my face - but can't think that way! Must keep positive and be happy for how far we've come and all of the good things that have happened over the last few days.
(I just re-read that last paragraph and just want to say that, again, I recognize that I have no basis on which to be angry at where we are at, as I contributed greatly to it. I guess my hurt, anger, and frustration lie in the fact that he continues to make the choice to be with her while telling me that we are going to be together. I have no reason to be demanding and to expect anything from him due to what I have done. I'm just hurt and confused...)
At any rate, sorry to go off on a rampage once again. Thank you, 1210, for the words of wisdom regarding when he does come home. That all made good sense and was really helpful.
As far as Hawaii, you said to maintain my emotions until he's back. Did you mean if for some reason we do end up going to Hawaii but he hasn't come back home officially by then? If he has come home officially before then, do you have different advice?
I know it's important not to act overly excited and giddy and all of that all at once.
So two more issues:
OW - what do I say/ask/do about that? I will be crushed if he continues to see her behind my back and at the same time don't want to pressure him and at the same time need to be reassured... I don't know. This feels really awkward to me to know how to deal with. We have already had HUGE trust issues (me with him) in the past, and unfortunately it seems to be very easy for him to lie to me. This is something we really need to work on. How do I start this process?
Secondly, sex... I'm really torn on this one. I know obviously the main ingredient (I believe) was our lack of sex for this whole mess happening in the first place. I have been reading tons about this and have learned so much that I want to "practice." And I want to show him that I care about his needs, and I WANT to nurture him - now and forever. I want to show him I finally heard his pleas for me to change and that I'm GOING to finally do something (permanent) about it.
At the same time... although I know we were together on Christmas Day when he was still seeing OW (although I truly did not understand the depth of how much he was into things with her), I don't know if it's better, more healthy, to wait a bit before we jump right back into that? I was thinking that maybe I could find some way to talk to him about being close until we go to Hawaii maybe (provided that he comes home before then) in ways other than actually ML and work towards ML? I don't know! I'm really torn on this one. On one hand, I really want him to know I'm working on this, and I don't want him to come home and think nothing has changed. On the other hand, I don't know if we both need some time to reacqaint and heal and just be together but not necessarily in that way. Maybe we can start slow and still please each other sexually without actual intercourse? I just don't want to mess this up. Maybe the best thing is to ASK him how he feels and what he wants???
As far as the sex issue goes, you might get a more thoughtful and educated response on the Sex Starved Marriage board. There are some really good posters over there who know how to pack a punch. I really respect their views.
Regardless of if he comes home tonight, 2 days before Hawaii or after Hawaii, you are both going to have a lot of healing to do. Some say when the partner who has had the affair returns the work/pain/angst really starts.
You should read Believing_Isiah's thread here in Infidelity. Her H had an affair, they reunited and have been back together for about a year, but she is still struggling. I know she has learned a lot during this time and I'll bet she could share some of the lessons with you.
Mostly I think she's had to learn to deal with her anger and betrayal, and in doing so has risked the marriage again.
Take care
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
As far as how long he has been seeing OW, I don't know exactly, but from what I understand, he started having probably what I would believe to be an emotional affair maybe in September/October? Then, if I believe him (and it would be consistent with about when he started "acting noticeably strangely around me"), the physical affair started around the end of October. I found out about it on November 15th, and he told me around the end of November that he had decided to give our M another chance but that he didn't not for sure when or how.
In any marriage, there is usually one S that leads, more than the other. This is usually reserved for the H, the head of the table, so to speak. However, wise women know how to "allow" their H's to "think" that they are in charge, even if they do so themselves.
As I mentioned to you earlier, you need to let your H run the forward gamet in this R. That means, to let him decide the direction you'll be paddling the canoe. He tuned you out some time age...please let him be the man he is w/o all the planning and worry from your end.
He had an A...But, you want him back...therefore, he plays by his rules now. That means, he calls the shots, in his own time frame. Pushing him into these affirmations just don't work - I suspect that he brought it up b/c you are always asking. Nothing more.
The trip is a business trip - however, I see much expecta- tion in your post that this will be a second honeymoon. You have been rushing this way too fast...he will do what he needs to do, when he feels like doing it. The pressure is still coming from you - not the date of the trip. If he hasn't broken it off, you will be absolutley devastated. Plus, he'll feel more pressure. This is going to take a long time to heal in both of your hearts. He needs to see that any changes you've made are not temporarily contrived due to the trip. You need to understand that you may never get all or even some of your questions answered...ever. You also need to realize that if he wants to talk about the OW, he will. If not...so be it. Your need to know will do exactly what for your R? Other than make you angry, more than likely depressed...what benefit is it for you?
My XH and I are still dating, since 12/11/06...we have yet to sleep with each other or ML. He cheated, I cheated and then came the divorce. I detached 200%...he came back within a year...but we needed to go through the D.
Don't worry about ML now, he's not home yet. Then, if he should reside there again, let him initiate the first move in that dept. It's his ballgame.
Tam - to check anyone's thread: See the poster that you want to learn about on the left hand side of the screen in red? Click on to that name and you will end up on the page of that person's profile. At the bottom, you'll see a part that says: Show all of user's posts - click on that. The next screen will list all of the forums that the person has responded to. At the top right side, you'll see "Next". Click on that however many times needed to get to the first post of that person. To get out - hit main index.
I've responded to a few, but always post in infidelity.
Still going to wait until the last possible minute to contact him. It's possible that he may not answer his phone when I call, at which point I guess I'll just have to go to the meeting myself. I hope that doesn't happen.