This old post from one of our esteemed posters is appropo, I believe. I read this post often.
Quote:
Oh my goodness, Scott. I wish I were you. I think I am married to your fiance's twin. Same issues; same arguments; same unwillingness to admit any ownership of the problem; same insistence that, if I just relax and "not focus on sex" that it may or may not get better, but I must love her just the same and concentrate on "growing closer."
Here are the differences between your sitch and mine: We are married. We have one child together, and I have three kids from a prior marriage who view her as a great stepmom. There are other differences, probably, but those are the main ones, and, to me, the only relevant ones.
Scott, if I didn't have children in common with my W, I would divorce her. Don't get me wrong...I love this woman. But, like you, I don't feel particularly loved BY her. Oh sure, she insists that she loves me, and she wants me to be confident of her love for me. But to me, those are empty words that match the feeling in my heart. It shouldn't be a battle just to get your wife to admit that your needs are valid. It shouldn't be a battle just to touch and be touched. Sex, as I recall, can be quite fun.
But not with a woman like your GF or my W. The only "fun" thing about sex with them is remembering how good it used to be. The fun disappears when you compare it with current reality.
And what is up with their insistence that, if we just don't "focus on sex" for some indeterminate period of time, the problems will be solved? And, like you, when you intentionally avoid the subject of sex for weeks or months, absolutely nothing happens. You don't feel closer to her because, well, you need the physical contact in order to feel close. And she doesn't feel any closer to you because she can get inside your head and she knows you are full of anger and resentment over the whole issue. Of course, you can't talk about it with her because it involves sex and that is the very subject you're supposed to NOT BE FOCUSING ON.
(sidenote: Do they fail to understand that by telling us NOT to focus on something, it begins to engulf us? It's like telling the guy holding the armload of boxes to ignore his itching nose.)
You say that her "plan" puts most of the effort on your lap. Welcome to my world, Scott. It is up to you to make your GF's world perfect, after which, she may or may not grace you with the gift of her body. And if she does grace you with the gift, don't go thinking that everything is hunky dory. No, my friend. While you weren't looking, while you were in bed with her, the boulder rolled all the way down the hill again. The wheel was un-invented. Get out of bed and start pushing the boulder up the hill again. Start re-inventing the wheel. There is no room for complacency. There is no time to enjoy the afterglow. Get moving.
Is it worth it? Can you look at yourself in the mirror, Scott, and say, "dude, you are exactly where you want to be today! You are in a great relationship with a great woman who, despite her faults, you love deeply. And, despite your faults, she loves you, and shows her love in the way that you want. You are fortunate." Or do you look in the mirror and furrow your brow and say, "dude, it's got to better than this."
I envy you. To me, your path is so clear ahead of you. One road shows me years of effort and frustration and sadness and anger and resentment. The other road...well, who the f!ck cares what the other road looks like? It's another road. And, if it sucks, then you take another. Or another.
You are in your mid-30s. Believe it or not, that's young. You are not married.
I am clearly biased, but I say, go join the land of the living.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
I also think Corri made an excellent post. Her down to reality viewpoint is what you need to keep in mind, but even with the idea that you find a woman who is more practical, that aspect of her could change when kids come along. There is a reason for the old adage that you look to the mom to know what the daughter will be like later in life. So even the most pragmatic appearance can be a little deceptive.
she's WAY more put together than me (i'm a musician) in practical ways... and we both look at each other with amazement.
Following on that comment of mine, this comment of your’s bothers me some. I am sure there are successful musicians in the world who can earn a very good living. Are you one of them? Do you earn enough to support a new and growing family, PLUS have the ability to increase your income over and above the inflation rate into the future? My impression is that the majority of musicians love their trade but may not make a good living and end up relegating it to a hobby, taking on other professional work to earn a living.
How will you feel if your future wife decides you two (and your kids) need more income to survive in the manner she is accustomed to? How will you react if she wants you to find a new career? Do you have a college degree with which you could do this? I’m not picking on you, but if you are just a musician in a band doing nightly gigs, I think you are opening the door to some possible problems in the future. If you are good, can get recording contracts, etc, then things should be fine. However, I get the impression you are young and VERY VERY NAÏVE of the world and of life in general. Dieda’s book is excellent and you need to really assess what YOU want in life and what you want to accomplish.
If you are a successful man, then your wife will not be able to exert the leverage over you that others speak of, at least not to the degree she otherwise could. If you can dedicate yourself to your career vision instead of your wife, she will have less leverage over you and she will be happier for it too.
I see the bulk of your issues as YOU not knowing what you want and she not respecting you for it. You are close to falling into a martyr role in which you look to your wife to be your surrogate mother and rescue you, to make you happy, to solve your problems. That is nothing but trouble.
If this will be the second wedding postponement, what was the reason for the first?
yep. I have a degree in Music Performance. W and I met in music school...yet that is the thing we have least in common. how's that for "ironic"? we're both professional level musicians, but neither of us does much with it anymore. she never did, really. she realized late in college that she'd made the wrong choice, basically finished up, and went elsewhere. she wasn't a "player", though...she was an ED major. I was a player, and giving it up to get a "real" job killed something inside me, and I'm only just realizing that recently. Its a place that harbors a whole bunch of resentment.
heard a good joke the other day. q: what do you call a musician that doesn't have a girlfriend? a: homeless
hey guys. thanks for all the great responses. like i said, i don't know what i would do without this board. your experience and stories are absolutely invaluable. i think the therapy will be a great experience for both of us to communicate in a safe environment, but the knowledge and advice i am getting here is worth more than the $100/hr even. that said, the first session was good. we are supposed to write down how we feel and express love to each other for next time... and i'm not supposed to try initiating sex at all. it was nice to hear her say how much she loves me in the session. it made me realize how little she says it on a day to day basis. anyways... all the stories and advice you guys are sharing is dead on. i have to get myself out. plain and simple. i am going to continue with the therapy, but i fear even if things change, i will continually be 'reinventing the wheel'. thanks for the story balto, that's it to a tee. her previous engagement was 10 years ago and i think they just fought too much leading up to the marriage and she didn't feel appreciated - which won't be the case with me. who knows though, maybe that guy was going through the same thing? as for the music thing - i am confident of my abilities. it's just a matter of time before it's full time. i have another good job, but the point about her appreciating my interests is a fascinating idea. she claims to feel hurt that pour so much energy into the music and not our wedding - but she knows why i am not excited about the wedding. the sex. which makes it all worse. she says i am 'holding a carrot in front of her'. anyways... thanks again for all the great advice guys. i suppose we're back to the same solution: if i had half a brain i'd get out as fast as i can. the only thing that will save me is bravery and courage.
If you throw in the towel without at least examining your own sh$t. There is a 99.9999% chance that you will endup in a relationship with sexual difficultis. If fact all relationships will suffer from problems how you deal with them is the trick.
Quote: as for the music thing - i am confident of my abilities. it's just a matter of time before it's full time. i have another good job, but the point about her appreciating my interests is a fascinating idea. she claims to feel hurt that pour so much energy into the music and not our wedding
Well... in her mind, you can swap out the word 'wedding' and insert her name, or, 'our life together.' That is why I had suggested calling off the wedding ceremony, but not the R.
Quote: - but she knows why i am not excited about the wedding. the sex. which makes it all worse. she says i am 'holding a carrot in front of her'.
Well, in a sense, you ARE holding a carrot in front of her, for she sees you wanting something FROM her to satisfy a personal want/need... and you don't really care about anything else in your lives other than getting a certain amount of something FROM her. She does not feel wanted or needed BY you... meaning... the amount of sex you get from her is more important to you than SHE is, as a person.
This is often a HUGE misconception for many couples. But the two of you, together, are doing something to perpetuate this feeling, and I'd say this is what you need to discover, so you can correct it.
Quote: i suppose we're back to the same solution: if i had half a brain i'd get out as fast as i can. the only thing that will save me is bravery and courage.
I don't know... I think Cobra had a very good point... you need to discover what is driving you 'below the surface' that has you helping create the situation you now find yourself, or you are likely to go out and do it again with someone else.
Lack of sex is usually just an indicator of something else going wrong within the R. It is a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself. Even though it feels like it.
So perhaps your mental framework could be (and you have to decide this) is to approach your W2B and say to her "it isn't about the sex. It's the fact that you and I cannot resolve this problem. You see it one way, and I see it another, and we cannot find common ground. The solution is not for this to become LESS important to me, or that it become MORE important to you. We are who we are. But the problem still remains unresolved. THAT is what bothers me... for if we cannot solve THIS together, what else will we not be able to solve together?"
See what I mean? But you getting OUT of the R isn't necessarily the solution, either. You are contributing to half of this. Figure out why. THEN you will know what you need to do for you, not what we all think you should do.
