It is just my take but.... Are you really focusing on YOU.. if you are doing things for her ? If you are.. is it bringing you .. YOU.. positive results in your sitch ?
Heywyre, I really am not beating myself up here! I know it might look that way but my anger towards myself (is not that intense ) but is a sudden recognition that if I want my M then I need to respond to the sitch, not just ME, if that makes any sense. If I want to be viewed as a great H, who is so caring etc but be divorced, then I can carry on the way I have. If I want my M then I must look at the sitch and do what it demands, not what makes me look and feel good. Yes, she treats me rather poorly and how much of that am I bringing on myself by stuffing that loving crap down her throat day after day. I need to give her space and as AT says, look after ME in a better way. Thanks for the 2 X 4 and the encouragement! Different opinions are really helpful in thinking things through.
Mission accomplished, Tom! In my sitch I think I really just need to sit back a bit and breathe. I've been kind of obsessed with finding a direction, getting a plan together cuz I felt that would bring back the hope that has kept me going for a long while. Maybe it's time to just accept whatis is and see what life has in store, let go for a bit and get back to building me back up! Give her some respectful space...and if she's still a bitch then take no prisoners
I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for what you want. If she gives (her choice as an autonomous person) then it's her choice and there shouldn't be resentment. Respect her ability to choose for herself. Respect your ability to ask for what you want. If she didn't want to hug you she wouldn't have for a minute, much less an hour. I think the important thing here is that you recognize your autonomy - you recognize your choice to give. If you want to give, then you give. She's not pressuring you or manipulating you to do what you choose to, and you shouldn't be giving in order to get her to give back. Just because she has told you how she feels doesn't mean that you have to change the way you feel - you can still feel the way you do and share this with her. This is part of self respect - and if you sacrifice your self respect you can not respect others. What you do to yourself you do to others.
You are you, so of course your needs are your concern. Relationships are not about sacrifice - that's a recipe for disaster. If you hide your wants then you are being dishonest. Is being dishonest respectful? I think it comes accross as manipulative and controlling. Now, if you think you owe her an apology, you might. You might want to think about how you are really disrespecting her, because there's nothing wrong with asking for what you want. Trying to coerce and manipulate what you want IS disrespectful.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Thanks Muddle, you make some interesting points to "Muddle" over! As far as respect, in a way it is respectful to ask for what you want BUT it is disrespectful to continue pushing for something when you know the other party is not interested in meeting those needs. It's kind of like the guy in high school who would endlessly pursue some poor girl despite her lack of interest. Rarely would that ever result in something positive happening for the guy. I don't want to be that guy! My W also comes from a culture which demands returns for favours. If I am always doing nice, caring things for her then her cultural background demands she return it yet right now she can't and that creates guilt, anger and sometimes hugging that isn't really desired. I like your point about the reason for doing things, if it is genuine then it is respectful, if it is manipulative it is not. I always want to hug because I want to hold her and be held BUT is it getting me anywhere in my sitch? Is it pushing her away and making her concentrate on how to push me away rather than looking at important things. This is my dilema. So for now, I tone it down and give her space. Last night was interesting, I returned from my Yoga class and she offered and brought me a bowl of soup she had just cooked, she made arrangement for the kids today as it is a day off for them (usually that is my job) and this morning I made everyone's lunch, as I usually do, and before I left I told her I'd made one (as I wasn't sure of her plans re lunch with D9 and she had been asleep)she said "THANKS FOR DOING THAT, but I was intending to take D9 out for lunch". I said "OK, I'll just stick it in the fridge". I wonder if there was a connection between my new actions of the previous night and what she did in response? We shall see. Thanks again Muddle, as always you provide wonderful food for thought. Hope things are going well for you.
Quote: As far as respect, in a way it is respectful to ask for what you want BUT it is disrespectful to continue pushing for something when you know the other party is not interested in meeting those needs.
Here's where I have a little trouble with your thinking. Is it respectful to define her by her past feelings? She wasn't interested in meeting your needs in the past. But you don't know about right now, or the future. So YOU could be destroying your potential for connecting with her because you're interacting with your assumptions about her rather than with her directly. Is that respectful?
Quote: It's kind of like the guy in high school who would endlessly pursue some poor girl despite her lack of interest. Rarely would that ever result in something positive happening for the guy. I don't want to be that guy!
This image is a horrible one, isn't it. I know the feeling of being fearful of becoming this guy. It's exactly the image OT uses to deter people from being more in the relationship than their spouse. So how do you do this? You make the choice not to interact in this way not because of how she responds to your requests, but because you don't want to do this yourself. Defining yourself based on another person isn't a very respecful thing to do for yourself, but defining yourself because of your autonomous choice IS.
Quote: My W also comes from a culture which demands returns for favours. If I am always doing nice, caring things for her then her cultural background demands she return it yet right now she can't and that creates guilt, anger and sometimes hugging that isn't really desired.
This is her issue. How much power her cultural upbringing has over her is something that you shouldn't concern yourself with. If you, an autonomous person, ask someone, another autonomous person, for something and they choose to give it to you, does it matter what their motivation is? It's none of your business, really, and it's disrespectful to try and make judgements about this.
Quote: I always want to hug because I want to hold her and be held BUT is it getting me anywhere in my sitch?
It's helpful for deep limbic system health to be touched - for both of you. It's nurturing. It's closeness - that you are both CHOOSING.
Quote: Is it pushing her away and making her concentrate on how to push me away rather than looking at important things.
You can't address her issues - address yours. Be respectful - this is what your post said YOU wanted to do.
Quote: This is my dilema.
No dilema - be respectful and stay out of her head.
Quote: Last night was interesting, I returned from my Yoga class and she offered and brought me a bowl of soup she had just cooked, she made arrangement for the kids today as it is a day off for them (usually that is my job) and this morning I made everyone's lunch, as I usually do, and before I left I told her I'd made one (as I wasn't sure of her plans re lunch with D9 and she had been asleep)she said "THANKS FOR DOING THAT, but I was intending to take D9 out for lunch". I said "OK, I'll just stick it in the fridge". I wonder if there was a connection between my new actions of the previous night and what she did in response?
She is choosing to love you. She's choosing to offer thanks, nurture you and be a great mom. Not because you're doing something wrong or right, but because she's choosing it. You might ask her if she likes what you're doing though. That would be respectful.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Muddle, I've got to stop reading your posts at work! I end up pondering and getting nothing done Your post made me think maybe what is happening is I'm getting into the "save my M" approach versus the "make my life the best it can be" approach. Once we start spending too much time trying to "read" and "interpret" what the other is thinking, it's a quick downward spiral! So I must do the things that will make me feel good about me versus what "might" affect the sitch in some good or bad way. Thanks! I like the idea of checking with her in the future to ask how she is experiencing my new approach to things. And lastly, yes, hugging is wonderful! I've told her that when I hold her I feel that all is right with the world. It is so true. That physical intimacy often evaporates ill feelings that I have inside, I always feel happy and connected with her afterwards. It's a nice connection and I do treasure it when it happens. I do make a point of not pushing for this often. On the other hand, isn't it kind of pathetic to keep pushing for physical affection from somone who says she doesn't love you? Ah, there I go again As always, thanks Muddle.
Hi Whatis, Just following along with you and Muddle this morning. I like what he said:
Quote: No dilema - be respectful and stay out of her head.
You seem to be spending a lot of time thinking about what she might be thinking. Like if I do or don't do this for her, how will she feel? Ya know what I mean?
Work on being the best you that you can be. Create happiness within yourself. Treat your W in a loving way because it makes you feel good. Do not have any expectations, that just sets you up for dissappointment.
I know, easier said than done. Now get back to work and make it a Great Day!
Thanks Mama! You are right because we can create all sorts of motivations for our S's actions but they mean squat cuz WE DON"T KNOW! We can't and, in a way, it is disrespectful to believe we do. It certainly is best to do what will create a better and happier person in myself, do my dbing as best I can and remember to keep respect for myself and my W a priority in my life. Take care.
) but is a sudden recognition that if I want my M then I need to respond to the sitch, not just ME, if that makes any sense. If I want to be viewed as a great H, who is so caring etc but be divorced, then I can carry on the way I have. If I want my M then I must look at the sitch and do what it demands, not what makes me look and feel good. Yes, she treats me rather poorly and how much of that am I bringing on myself by stuffing that loving crap down her throat day after day. I need to give her space and as AT says, look after ME in a better way. Thanks for the 2 X 4 and the encouragement! Different opinions are really helpful in thinking things through.