Yes, she came back and that actually calmed me. I had evil thoughts of calling my lawyer and ending this sh!t. I also am trying to keep in mind that it is January and the beginning of her yearly depression season. Every January is kind of Hellish, she knows it but refuses to do anything about it. I gave up trying to get her to go for meds, she won't stay on them. It's better to live this way? I can't figure it out (btw she works in mental health too!). As far a brother, I believe he will be cleared but they are following protocol and that can be a traumatic experience. Hopefully the investigation will be concluded in short order. But to be walked from the building, have your keys taken away and all in front of your employees. Not a happy place. He's also sick as a dog from the flu. Thanks for asking.
Lastly, what am I supposed to do? I try to be caring and because of my profession I can't be? I'm being professional! Should I say "Hey bitch, WTF's your problem? Would that be more appropriate? I can't figure it out! 1210, I'm a helper, it's what I do and I CAN"T F#CKING HELP RIGHT NOW!!!! Sorry, tears are coming. Catch you later. Thanks for caring everybody. I guess it's like being a doctor who wants to make everybody live and can't.
Addition: I don't know if that last little emotional outburst made sense but its just that I feel my attempts to be caring are being disregarded by my W because of my profession. I feel frustrated. If I say I care I'm sh1t on because I'm a social worker and if I don't then I'm uncaring! Oh I don't know, time for bed.
STOP IT...you are a caring guy, very thoughtful, a good dad to the girls and very resourceful.
Your W has the problems...not you. Yes, it is grueling to know that everything you do - seems to not affect her. She has a problem...we all know that you are a great guy, one I'm proud to say is a friend and one that offers great advice.
You cannot control her moods, she's in her own world. The SBT will hopefully offer you an insight on how to crack the tough "hard boiled egg" that she is. You are doing everything right, but with little response. I wish she would go see someone, but I know it's her pride.
Rest up my Canadian Mountie, you will get help real soon. Don't get down, now, you have come a long way - it's her.
Anytime you need to vent, do so here - but show her that it doesn't bother you.
Quote: Often my tone here is one I reserve for here. It may give the wrong impression of how I view my W and our R.
I understand your point, but you are practicing a view point that is detrimental to your relationship. It makes you an outsider on your R because you are nurturing a part of yourself that you don't want to see interacting with your W. Get my point?
Quote: There are many good things in our R and how I connect with her, again, is worthy of some consideration.
Clearly there is reason she's still there. Clearly there is reason that you're still there. But you're not working together as a team for a reason. You are both choosing this, not just your W.
Quote: Much of the time she doesn't allow connection.
I think people are always looking to connect. I think if you go into situations with this perspective you will see this. You are defensively casting an image of her in your mind that you mold to according to your expectations. You then interact with this image - not with her. You seek to understand her for self-gratifying reasons, in order to fine tune this mold so you don't get hurt - not to truly understand her.
Quote: That rare laugh we shared at BR dance last night caught me off guard, it felt really nice...we were connected but she pushes that away most of the time. I don't push re connecting with her too much cuz it gets discouraging and I think I've basically stopped right now.
Interesting language you use here - because you talk about pushing, which requires a connection. I think it's important to look to any interaction as connection, something YOU are likely shutting down because of your defensiveness, or for some other reason that's entirely your own issue. You talk about pushing regarding connecting - I don't think this is something you can push to do - this implies that you are looking to connecting to provide you with some deep insight into your W. I think if you aim to share you will find that it requires little to no pushing and it's mutually beneficial. Because you want to connect as well. Not as a helper, not as a patient, but as a person. You and your W have the same wants and needs. You are equals.
Quote: I am pleasant and approachable but I'm kind of sick of getting brushed aside, it's frustrating, so I don't give her the opportunity much. When you try to share something in your life and this person grunts and walks away, well, that says "I'm not interested in your life".
You are pleasant and approachable, yet immediately - in the same sentence - you talk about reacting defensively. Do you think this is a part of this pleasant and approachable posturing? Do you share your feelings rather than just try and be nice? Do you tell your W when she tells you that she's not interested in your life how you feel as a result? I think this is critical. You need to express yourself in emotional terms, share your feelings, own your feelings. Respond to her when she shares her feelings with you. She does it quite often and it seems that rather than try and understand them you judge them. For some reason you are maintaining a distance from her, you are finding subtle ways to make something that you think NEEDS to be true real - that she's somehow not your equal because of what she's doing, that she's flawed. Your belief that this is true is more dear to you than doing what's best for your relationship. I think you need to look deep inside and find the reason for this - what are you protecting? What is making you defensive? Are there flaws in you that you're afraid are being exposed? You are no more flawed than your W is. In fact, I think the idea of flaws in people is almost absurd - it's like defining people as good and bad. You are not either, but your actions are. You define yourself however you do, but allow your wife to define herself. It seems to me that you are defining your wife in ways that cut short sharing and connection.
Quote: As 1210 says this is why I have decided to see the SF counsellor because there may be things I can do that I am just overlooking. I also get angry when I see the person I love driving herself into depression, she knows that is what is happening but doing it anyway. She does nothing about it except let OP soothe her emotional needs, that's apparently her job!
I think it's great that you are seeing a counselor. It will help you without question.
Quote: So, I guess, I let it out here. Anyway, next week is my first session and we'll see how it goes.
Don't stop posting - please, but I think you should question your part in connecting with your wife. I think you try but the way you try seems not to be working. I think that we need to have a consistant view on our marriage in order to be truly invested in it. I think that one of the ways we undermine our marriage severely is to gossip and complain about our spouses behind their back. This is because it gets us in the habit of disrespecting them. Our overall level of respect drops and then we are disresepcting them to their face in less than subtle ways in no time. There's still plenty that can be done, and this is only my opinion that's clouded by my own experience. I wish you well. Keep us posted.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Thanks Muddle, I think you may have some valid points here. When one gets frustrated and can't see anywhere to go the anger and "gossip", as you put it, comes into play. Thanks for pointing it out. Again, I'm hoping that working with the SF counsellor will help put me on a planned approach to this cuz I'm tuckered out here. My W really is depressed and disinterested in anything but her job right now, she tries to stay connected with her family but, yes, my job is to try and connect with her in ways that are valid to her. I talked with a friend this morning and he pointed out that when I say to W "Is there anything you need" I'm saying she is "needy", pointing out her percieved inadaquacy. I'm also stating the I can fix it if she wants me to. He suggested I just say "would you like to talk" period. I think his point is quite perceptive and worth a try. When I say "Is there anything I can do for you" I am again saying that "I" can take care of her, not helpful. The other thing I noticed about last night was that I did change something and got a different response. Instead of carrying on about my brothers situation despite her lack of visible interest, I stopped and left the room. Later she came to me to ask if I would like to finish the story. I pulled back, she approached me. That is a change. Little things matter. Thanks for checking in on me guys. It has been a very stressful time in my life the past month or so.
Quote: My W really is depressed and disinterested in anything but her job right now, she tries to stay connected with her family but, yes, my job is to try and connect with her in ways that are valid to her.
No trying Whatis, doing. Don't give yourself an out - recognize when you do connect (which I'm sure you do daily), recognize what you're doing and exploit this. If she's interested in her job then try to understand how she feels about it. Listen to her talk and recognize the feeling part. Repeat this back. Feel what she's feeling, not why, not by trying to understand the events leading to the feelings but feel her feelings. Validate them. Share her experience.
Quote: I talked with a friend this morning and he pointed out that when I say to W "Is there anything you need" I'm saying she is "needy", pointing out her percieved inadaquacy. I'm also stating the I can fix it if she wants me to. He suggested I just say "would you like to talk" period.
I think if you go into a situation expecting her to be desirous of connecting (which I believe we all are), then there is no point in asking that question. I think you're right about not asking her if there's anything she needs because it makes it clear that you're looking to focus on solving a problem. No connecting in that. Focus on relating, not being functional to her. She needs to know that you think her feelings are valid and relevant. She needs to know that you see her as whole and complete, not a piece of work that needs some serious fixing.
Quote: I think his point is quite perceptive and worth a try. When I say "Is there anything I can do for you" I am again saying that "I" can take care of her, not helpful.
If you take the time to understand her feelings in the moment you ARE saying this through your actions. You're not just posturing, you're really doing it. And she'll be receptive to it. She'll feel connected and she'll be far more willing to come out and ask for your help if she does have a problem that she wants your help in solving. Recognize her autonomy.
Quote: The other thing I noticed about last night was that I did change something and got a different response. Instead of carrying on about my brothers situation despite her lack of visible interest, I stopped and left the room. Later she came to me to ask if I would like to finish the story. I pulled back, she approached me. That is a change. Little things matter.
See? She wants to connect. She does care about you and for you. Now, what was it about how your were sharing initially that you can change in order to keep her interest? Were you conveying factual information? If you were, perhaps preceeding your fact you made a statement about your feelings relative to that fact: "I felt so alone when they moved him down the hall." Also, did you communicate to your W how you felt about her "lack of visible interest"? Or did you just react by walking away?
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Well, I won't bore you all with the early evening action as it was just the usual snarkiness etc. but I will share something I just read in my church newsletter, I meant something to me:
Practice patience. Seek out a neglected friend. Write a loving note. Share. Give a soft answer. Offer encouragement. Try to understand. Find time. Forgive. Listen. Be kind; be gentle. Express your gratitude. Try to understand. Speak your love. Speak it again. Speak it once again.
Whatis is in the doghouse again! Yes, I spoke up about W badmouthing D's teacher in front of the kids. In hindsight, I should have taken her aside and said "please don't do this and this is why" but I just asked her to stop as D's don't need to know these things. We met with D's teacher today and W was venting somewhat. I just reacted (never a good strategy). Before the meeting she met me at the front of the school and laid into me because my cell wasn't on, she hit me with one of my triggers, the "you never..." I just looked at her and continued walking with her following. I did not respond, finally she asked me to stop and said "aren't we going to discuss what we want from this meeting" and I said "let's discuss it". Meeting went as well as I expected (low expectation) but she claimed to "not be happy", fair enough. So she let the girls know why she was not happy! Later on, after the silent treatment she approached me and asked me why I had done what I did, I said I felt it innappropriate for either of us to "badmouth" the teacher in front of the kids because they will go to school and tell their friends and could eventually work against what we're trying to build with teacher. She said "I know you'll think this unrealistic but what about asking them not to tell anyone" I replied "maybe" and left. Again, this is one of the things I have wanted to address with her before but her sensitivity and anger when confronted with any of her behaviour really keeps me from doing it. Actually, tonight was one of the better times and she actually approached me somewhat reasonably for an explanation. Now she seems to be in a very happy mood, I have no idea why. Yes, I would approach it differently if I had the chance again but whatis is! I find myself wanting to constantly put out the fires to keep this home a place that is reasonably healthy for the kids (and us) and therefore some of the more "in your face" 180's I shy away from. I won't have yelling and screaming and the trauma the kids went through last time that happened. So, enough babbling BUT the positive is that she did approach me and she did not go ballistic, she was mad but fair enough. Maybe in future I can be a little more assertive again and see how it goes. Who knows.
Just kidding... remember that I am in Akron ! Liked your Newsletter btw !