Wondering if I'm piecing or Last Resort

[kirby]

thanks GH, Detachment is a new, and hard lesson for me. I want it now, but I know it will take practice and hard work to acheive it.

[kirby]

Journaling January 17, 2007
HEY! I went a whole day without posting to my own thread! I think that’s a healthy sign. (oops, I did post yesterday)

But, I’m back! Had some thoughts I needed to get out there, and I hope get input on.

As usual, my revelations came to me in the early morning. I had 2 today.

The first is that maybe, during my M, I had come to see my W as a ‘role’ instead of a person. She was a mother, cook, driver, etc., and had stopped being another person in her own right to me. Of course, I think I had started thinking of myself as the roles I perform too, and not as a person either. But I think I felt more this way toward my W than me.

What does that mean? What should I do with that thought? How should it change my behavior and even my perception? I’m not sure. All of those roles still need to be done, and should be done well. She is doing those roles now and is doing a good job. And, at the current state of our relationship, how do I show I value her as a person? I can’t just say it, although that seems the right way to me. I need to find actions and SHOW that I see her as a person. This is related to a way earlier revelation I had, about taking her for granted. How do I show I appreciate her, since I can’t say it, I can’t say ILY, I can’t buy her gifts (because she would see a gift as a way to induce her into an R with me, maybe). I say thank you a lot. I’ve tried to do the roles, chores for her, but that makes her feel like she isn’t part of the family and not involved. So I’m a little stumped as to how to express appreciation and how to acknowledge that she is a person. Help?

The second revelation is that our R is very, eerily, similar to the way it was before she left. We make a pretty good team; take care of business, the kids, the house, but the affection and intimacy is missing. The biggest differences now are that we don’t sleep together, have less contact, have acknowledged that there is a problem, and going to counseling. I know I need to change, and I’m starting to get that the change doesn’t have to be huge and immediately influential, but I’m having difficulty thinking of what to change and how. See the first point above. I’ve realized some of my failings but don’t feel I can show I’ve changed b/c of the current state of the R.

I can hear TL and GH as I think my next lines. I’m still to concerned with what she will think of the changes and how it will affect W. I’m still looking for the pay off (1. change action 2. W impressed 3. R is fixed). And that is true. But I do have more perspective and detachment than I did before.

The changes I have in mind are for me. Joining the church I’ve picked is for me. I hope my family, all of it, will join me later, but I’m doing it for me. Detaching and learning my boundaries is for me. Spending more time and appreciating that time with the kids is for me. Fixing our financial situation is for all of us, but I’m enjoying the work. A big change I still haven’t fully implemented is putting more of myself into my work.

But maybe my W and I are at a place that I can start thinking of improvements to the M/R too. Maybe I can start using some of the techniques in DR and DB books, like 180s, As If, Goals (for the R), knowing and asking for what you want, etc. Maybe more dates, more time together having fun, is what is called for.

I love my W. I had the realization last evening that I can choose to find someone else, or be on my own, but I like her. If I were dating and looking, I would choose her. I need to continue to work on me and get my stuff in one sock, but I would like to work on R too.

I think the bottom line might be that I need to be patient. Patience is hard when my W and I seem to get along and it seems to me that if she were willing, we could really make progress and have a fantastic R. It will come, whatever it is. I’ve schedules an appointment with a PC (personal C? is that who we abbreviate it here?), but it’s not until February. I wish it were now (patience!).

I’m feeling very talkative now, but this is plenty long. I’d really like some perspective on this. Hope to hear form someone soon. Thanks.

[kirby]

More babbling...
I think what I'm worried about is that anger isn't the opposite of love, apathy is. I'm worried that my wife is apathetic toward me. It's hard to tell. She fears anger, hers as well as others. I've rarely seen her angry. It must have been there, I just didn't notice it.

But, although I'm worried, I don't have the knot in my guts I usually have. I'm thinking again of how I want to change the bedroom to fit me more, instead of us. I'm feeling stronger.

Sometimes I think about her leaving, for OM or just for herself, and it makes me really sad, but I think I can handle it now. The thought that really worries me is if she wants to take the kids. I can feel a little frantic over that, but I then put the kids wellfare first and I would do what is best for them, whatever that might be.

Tonight we have couples communications class, followed by MC session. I don't know what to expect from either - I have no expectations. After last MC session, she initiated R talk. I want that to happen tonight, but I also don't. If nothing has changed, why talk about it.

So back to my personal demon, patience. TL told me I couldn't complain until April. I think April 1st is a fare goal/deadline. I'll set my sights on that. My W will have her PhD by then, and hopefully a job. She will be feeling more confident and fullfilled. Then maybe she can decide what she wants in regards to me.

[justbestfriends]

Thanks for your support on my thread, Kirby. It really helped lift me yesterday. Feeling much more positive today.

[grasshopper]

Not much time so I will pick this to reply to...

What does that mean? What should I do with that thought? How should it change my behavior and even my perception? I’m not sure. All of those roles still need to be done, and should be done well. She is doing those roles now and is doing a good job. And, at the current state of our relationship, how do I show I value her as a person?

This goes right back to expectations. What you realized is that you EXPECTED her to do all those things and those expectations began to define her in your mind. When she did them, she was being a "good her" and when she didn't, she was not. You lost sight of the fact that beyond all that, she AND you needed to remain human beings, free from outside expectation and able to see and be seen for their core being.

It happens to all of us and I think those of us that make it through something like these sitches come out the other side with a healthy perspective on what it means to be a real person standing next to another real person in a committed relationship. To value them is to first value yourself. If all you think about is what role YOU play, that's how you'll think of them and so forth.

Learn to define who YOU are and you'll start to figure out how to respect, value and express joy over who she is...unless it turns out that you really don't respect, value or feel joy over who she turns out to be.

In any event, the key, as always, lies within you. Find it and use it.

GH

[kirby]

Journaling January 19, 2007 Friday

I’ll start with the sad stuff, so I can end on a higher note.

I woke feeling pretty good. I had a good morning. Then my best friend invited me to dinner tonight and I could really use a night out with someone who enjoys my company. I called my W to tell her my plans and let her know I wouldn’t be home for dinner. When I called, the phone went immediately to voice mail. This usually means that she is on line using the dial up modem. This always makes me think she is on line with OM. It shouldn’t. It doesn’t really make sense. She could use the DSL upstairs and email or chat with him. But I guess the modem and her use of the internet are triggers for me. I stopped my unproductive thinking, but felt a little down after that. She called me back not long after my message. She sounded tired, and because of my paranoia, guilty. Again, it was pretty stupid thinking on my part. It’s hard to get over the A and jealousy when she won’t share or talk with me much at all. Still, the affect was really rather small. The fact that she doesn’t sound happy to hear from me always saddens me a little too. But, I’m bouncing back. Telling someone, writing it here, helps to the negative out of my system.

Yesterday was MC and a Communications class for me and W. I love those days because my W actually talks. She talks to me, a little, and to he MC a little. She has never been a communicator, and in the current sitch she is even worse, so counseling night is a real thrill for me. Last night was good for me overall because there was some communication. But, keeping with my plan to start with the negative, some things were said by her during C that hurt a bit.

The MC started to push her to open up, and I think he felt we should be ready to really start addressing some issues and therefore get closer; i.e. start working on building some intimacy. When MC asked point blank the question I’ve wanted to ask, namely “do you want to be closer to your husband” she said No. Ouch. The MC backed off. I guess that means I should too.

The good news is that she didn’t say she knew she never wanted to be close to me again. The good news is we talked after the session and she said we are a long way from talking D. The good news is she did talk and express some of her feelings. I feel (though I’m not expecting) that she will not leave me or the kids any time soon. If she does, I’m as prepared as I can be. I’d keep doing what I’m doing now. It would hurt, but I’d survive and I know I’d eventually come out better than how I went in.

I’ve learned from my experience and from many on these boards, that the tears of a WAW are usually tears of guilt and not of love. My W cried a lot last night. I did, but not much. I think I am learning detachment, and loving detachment at that. My W is obviously in pain (although sometimes I think she is totally calm and feels nothing at all. I guess she hides her feelings well. Not too surprising). I want to help her, but I know I can’t. I know she has to decide for herself. Of course, I have the answers ;, but she will have to find her own.

An issue she has that I did try to help her with was her feeling of being dependant on me (which she doesn’t like. She has a very strong desire for independence (d’uh)). She’s not working. My new job and loss of my Naval reserve pay has really strapped us for cash. But, I figured we could cash in our mutual fund and she could take half and use it however she wanted. She doesn’t have to be dependant on me. We could work that out. Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but she kept saying that she didn’t want to do that to US. Maybe she only means the kids, but I like to think I was included in that US. It’s one of the very few times I’ve heard her talk about us at all.

Another positive, from my perspective, during MC was he asked me how I was doing and I said pretty well; that I’ve learned not to talk too much, to be more patient, to not seek her approval for everything, or even most things, and finding things to make me happy. My wife agreed (with a twinge of sadness) that I don’t talk as much. So all the beatings I’ve received here seem to be working.

To summarize, I’m learning patience, detachment, and how to work on myself. She doesn’t want to work on being closer to me, but does not rule out that she may want to in the future. I’ve got more to spew onto the page, but I’m going to stop here to keep it (almost) short enough that someone may read.

[Heywyre]

Kirby - it's a tough road isn't it?

I too look forward to the times we go to counselling (tonight being one of those nights )

It gives me an opportunity to vent a lot of stuff I hold inside for fear H will take it the wrong way - I never know anymore what's right and wrong.

It also gives H a chance to say a few things that I don't think he would otherwise.

I know we are doing fairly well on the rebuilding but it never ever goes as fast as I would like it to

[kirby]

Hi Heywyre,
yes, it is a tough road.
I'm not 'allowed' to talk during C. Rightfully, I think, the C is trying to get W to open up, take a risk, communicate. I've arranged for a PC so I can do some talkilng. Luckily, I have a good friend, and a good brother, and even my mom to talk too. I wish my W had someone (NOT THE OM!!!) to talk too.

It sure isn't going as fast as I'd like, or you I guess. I take it from the tone of your post that you are doing well, or making some progress? I hope so. thanks for posting.

[Heywyre]

Kirby

I think we are making progress (but maybe that's just my wishful thinking)

On the other hand, at least you do have people to talk to. As far as H and I go, the only person we talk to is the C. I don't think H has talked to anyone else about it because he believes its a private matter between him and I (more likely he doens't want to be judged by his friends that would think he's an idiot - they all tell me how lucky he has to have me, if they only knew!!)

I haven't said anything to anyone either as we have just moved to a new city and no one I know is close by. I don't want to phone my best gf 3,000 miles away (she heard it all the first time around - yes, this is the second bomb. I know, what an idiot I am eh?) I just believe in marriage and I am willing to give it one last shot. There is NO WAY I will do it a third time though.

I think we are doing a lot better this time because instead of H just putting it on the back burner and pretending it didn't happen, he is actually reading some books I took out of the library - amazing in itself, wanting to go to C, initiates the R talks, asks me pretty much everyday how I am doing, and how are my feelings - I never ask him unless he asks first) - So, I guess, all in all, we are doing pretty good. Not as speedy as I would like, but ok

[kirby]

Heywyre,
Where is your thread? Mind if I read some of it and learn about you?

Luckily for you (and me) we can talk to people here; people who I feel really care and understand better than most friends could.

I'm glad you H is taking those steps. I wish you Lots and lots of luck