Quote: First, a question: what does it mean to externalize your problems, and is the opposite to internalize them?
Ok, the way I meant it was that you are still allowing HER emotions/problems and the relationship to greatly affect YOUR emotional state/feelings. You are allowing your feelings to then control you which is not helping.
When I think about internalizing, I guess I just mean detaching, not allowing external forces, forces that you have NO control over, to sway your mood and outlook on things. Being more self-centered (in a good way) is really what I am getting at. If you learn to put your happiness in a shell, inside yourself and nurture, protect and grow it, then you will be much better off than if you keep fishing for that happiness outside yourself, as you constantly do when you keep looking for your W or your marriage to make you happy.
Quote: Piecing vs. LRT. Maybe, probably, I've misunderstood, but if you're piecing and DBing, doesn't that mean you are more focused on the R and fixing it, working together, having goals for the R, doing 180s or "something different" that will help or fix a problem? While LRT is stopping the damage, working on yourself, and not working on the R.
I have to admit that I didn't really carefully read the LRT section of DB/DR but from my year here, I have formed my own idea of what it consists of and for me, the LRT is indeed all about what you said, but it's also about dropping the rope and possibly going dark. Basically, to me, the LRT is the secession of ALL attempts to reach out to your spouse and basically walk away. Although it's not SUPPOSED to be with the hopes that she'll run after you when you start walking, many people hope that's what happens.
To me, piecing is just another way to say reconciling. It's when BOTH parties are committed to working out the issues and making the marriage better. Usually, that means the affair is over, the WAS is at home and actively working with the LBS on making things better.
I know that sounds like I am excluding your sitch but I also realize that piecing means something different to each of us, that is just the criteria I used to determine when I moved here from the Infidelity board.
Quote: When I first came to this site, as a newcomer, I was advised to move to piecing. I guess because my W had returned. I think I moved here too soon. I don't know if it would help me or my sitch to move to another forum though. I'm getting good advise here... what do you all think?
Yes, you moved here too soon if you are just judging that based on where your sitch is but in terms of the advice you're getting, I doubt it's any worse than if you were somewhere else. Most of the people here have been here much longer than many in the other forums, have been through more, and maybe can give advice based more from their own success than theories from books...then again, many of us are not currently sharing your particular experience (although we surely have in the past) so you may find less commiseration here and more "to the point" advice...or maybe even periods of less attention paid to your thread.
I would say that since you're here now, you may as well stick around but do it because you like the people following you and not because you think your sitch fits some kind of predetermined definition of piecing, etc.
Quote: Snooping: I think part of the reason I snooped is that I felt so shut out of my Ws life and anything I could see, touch, know made me feel there is still a connection. She is secretive and protective of her life and space. I want to share it.
Very nice piece of honesty. This is a very good thing, to realize the motivation, the REAL motivation behind why you do these things. The next step is to realize that your intended goal(s) are NOT furthered by this action...and stop.
Quote: Fighting: Yes, I know not fighting is bad. She has been showing anger since she came back. I'll take that as a good sign. The MC said every time we fight, I should think of it as a hug from her.
Yep, trite and true "Anger is not the opposite of love...apathy is."
Quote:
Reading your latest posts on your thread, it sounds like this work is never done, although hopefully it's more rewarding and more teamwork. I guess that's how I ended up here; I wasn't doing the work before.
Bingo. And just when you relax, when you think it's ok to go back into cruise control mode your life smacks the $hit out of you and you realize that it's NEVER ok to do that. It's all part of a larger goal of becoming a VERY active participant in your life, not allowing ANY aspect of it to "just happen". I know that sounds at odds with letting go of control, but I don't think so. You ALWAYS want to be in control of YOURSELF and YOUR life, just not in control of other people and situations that you have no control over. Make sense?
BTW, at this point, in my sitch, it still doesn't feel too much like teamwork but then again, I am not looking for a teammate, I am looking for a wife.
Quote: Boy, I wish I knew for sure if she were trying, if we are piecing, and if she is just humoring me. I suspect she is. Should it make a difference either way to me? In some ways no. In some ways, I think it would make a big difference.
Absolutely NO, it should NOT make a difference to you. If she is humoring her, shame on her, not you. You start living your life as a man of honor, love and no expectations and if she chooses not to go that way, then so be it. You cannot keep living your life, making your decisions based on what she does, does not do, or thinks.
Quote: How to listen to someone who I don't see communicating? Maybe the NOT communicating is telling me something. I don't want to be negative, and ignore all the positive signs (going to counseling, politeness, some caring gestures) but they all could be 'humoring' or her trying not to hurt me anymore (caring?).
Ah, I think you're wrong here. She's not communicating in YOUR language, nor very directly, but everything she does...or does not do is indeed a form of communication.
I just think you need to stop trying to figure her out so much. You'll go crazy trying. Put MUCH more energy trying to figure YOU out and you'll get farther along faster.
Quote:
I think the distancing she is doing, the Non-communicating, and the blunt comment that she doesn't know if she can ever love me like she used to, communicates pretty well. So I think I need to back way off. No R talks, unless she initiates them. That and working on myself to be a person that I like.
Like I said, the "I don't know if I can love you anymore" is something that we hear at the beginning of sitches, NOT in the "piecing" stage but never-the-less, the fact remains that you don't need to worry about that. She will feel how she feels but you CAN help her regain some "love" for you but you have to regain it for yourself first, and it can't be based on what she may or may not feel, what may or may not happen with your marriage. It has to be based on what you know to be true; that you're a man who's made mistakes but is determined to not make them again, who's determined to grow, learn and love with the best of 'em.
Quote:
I've been advised to accept the positive signs as real and good signs. This is as much to keep the DBer's spirits up so they can last through the marathon as it is because they are positive, I think. I'll accept the positive signs, and not read into them that they imply more than they do (or I'll try not to).
Have you heard of the book "The Four Agreements"? If not (and BTW, if you have not already done so, do yourself a favor, invest in an iPod, or other mp3 player and start getting these things as audio books...helps a LOT), you should look into it. One of the major concepts the author advances is that you have to accept and learn from the bad as well as the good in life, and the people that "get it" never have to "get through" anything in life because they know that EVERYTHING they experience, from the best of times to the worst of times, is adding to their growth and teaching them something. It's not unlike some of the Buddhist teachings that stress Bodhichitta, or the enlightened mind, a state of being aware of everything and not dwelling on any one thing.
If you can learn to extract that which is useful to you from ALL your experiences and not try to shut out or deny the bad ones, you will have accomplished much.
So, accept ALL things and learn from ALL things. Of course, see the positive things and allow them to encourage you the major encouragement should come from within.
Wow, that was some pseudo-esoteric BS if I've ever heard any...sorry. I get that way about every 100 posts or so, lol. Guess you're the winner...
Stop beating yourself up, move forward and let your W figure her side of things out...and yes, back off.
