Wondering if I'm piecing or Last Resort

[kirby]

I think my first thread is locked. Is that a milestone that should be celebrated?

My first thread is linked below, if I did this right. I hope my advisors (Kirby's Squeek Squad? GH might not mind being called that, I hope no one else does. It's hard having a cute, fat, video game character named after you, especially one who sucks and blows )

[kirby]

OK, going to link to my first posts. Here goes.
First Thread

[kirby]

Since no one wants to play today and at work I'm in a holding pattern for a while, I spent the day reading Grasshopper's posts. I only got through the first 'saga' (as I think he calls them). It's helpful, I think, to know I'm not alone. He's been through it, as have the rest of you. He seems very similar to me (low self esteem, always asking W what she wants, talk things to death, etc).In many ways, his sitch was worse. I don't know if I would have the strength to make it in his sitch.

I can't believe how similar his and my sitchs are (how many times have you heard that?). I will try to find the time to read more, although I've skipped to the end and, unless things have changed recently, there is a happy ending, or a happy beginning. That should give me hope.

Here is something I copied from GH's thread

"From Imdi99, 1/13 res
I am a non-communicative W, with a H who liked to talk about feelings/emotions and our R. Years ago, before all of this started, I couldn't do it...it wasn't in my nature...i didn't know how. And i felt like if we talked about it, then i had to admit there was a problem and i didn't want to do that b/c i felt like it was my fault (i've struggled with depression). So, i thought if i ignored it, it would just go away. Perhaps your W isn't ready to fully accept her responsibility in the breakdown of your M"

This is my wife. She has never been able to talk. She keeps everything inside. I hope C will be able to help her. I tried for years to get her to open up, then accepted her. Maybe I should have kept trying.

She is still so non-communicative that I'm left totally in the dark about what she is feeling. She is so cool (cold?) and can act normal so well (as she did before she dropped the bomb, hence the surprise) that I fear my sitch will not improve. We will need to learn to communicate if we have a M/R again.

I think I might have it better than some (tell me it's true, so I can feel good about something) because my wife came home, is living in the house, and can be pleasant to me. The OM is in another state, as far as I know, which helps some too. And she has gone to C with me twice now.

But, reading others threads, I see some affection, touching, closeness even when things were awful. I would love a momentary touch from my W, or a hug. I'm thankful I usually get a 'good night' from her.

There, a little self pity. Today I called my friend, mainly just to hear a friendly voice. He ended up telling me about a miscommunication and 'fight' he had with his girl friend. My friend is so attuned to relationships, listening, validating, etc. that it was surprising that he could and does have the same kind of problems. His are obviously on a smaller scale, but very similar. Relationships, by nature I think, are hard.

My next topic will probably be detaching; what it means, how to care and still detach, how to have a R and be detached.

I've become adicted to his message board. If I don't get some comments soon, I might have to try a different forum, and find new freinds

[wedge]

I've become adicted to his message board. If I don't get some comments soon, I might have to try a different forum, and find new freinds

I still check on your thread, though there's really nothing much I can say that's different than what the other guys here are telling you. You and I are kind of in the same boat. My W is at home, we do things other married people do. Take care of the kid, have fun, go out and eat, go on vacations, but there is the OM in the shadows. I'm still sticking to DB principles though. My W has not told me ILY in a couple months now and I just put it in my head that "maybe tomorrow" she will. So I look forward to the next day. I'll keep on doing it until I cannot anymore, when that will be I can't say.

[kirby]

Wedge, thanks for the note. I just read your first few posts, so now I know a little of your sitch. I'll make some time to read and catch up with what's going on with you and where you are now.

My W and I had a double C session last night. The first was a communications class for couples, then a MC session immediately following that. Then, in the car in the parking lot, we talked some more. Based on all that, I think I do belong in the Piecing forum, but it's close. I learned some important things that validate DB principles.

My W brought up how angry she was that I snooped on her. This was weeks ago. I have pretty much stopped snooping and am getting better at not doing it. The point is, snooping hurts our chances. It serves no purpose. Almost.

Also, even though I felt I was doing such a good job dealing with my hurt and pain, and keeping it off of my face, she still resents me for being hurting. The point here is - detach, get over it, practice DB. The WAS/MLCer feels trapped, guilty, smothered by our pain. I'll have to work much harder on this. The MC gave us a technique to try to help us both with this. Basically, he told W that the pain is mine, she doesn't have to fix me.

More a little later.

[wedge]

If you can work on the snooping part it will be much easier, trust me. I have access to everything but have not even looked at it since I don't remember when. I'm more at peace now plus it helps that my W is acting like my W of long ago, loving, caring and all that good stuff. I don't even know if her EA is over. Hmmm

[kirby]

Morning. Despite the snow, I went to the office today (although so far I'm alone here). I think staying at home would have put too much pressure on W and me. I've spent enough time at home.

Last night was really interesting, with MC and R talking. I'm using this forum to review what happened and think it through. I may revise my thoughts and interpretations on this, as this is a first attempt.

The first session last night was a communications for couple’s class. We practiced the speaker listener technique. My W and I discussed her relationship with my mother. I knew she had problems with my mom, we all do, but I didn't know how much my W resented that she was the one who mainly had to take care of my mom. The underlying issue here is that she feels she told me, clearly, that she didn't want to do it and was upset, and I didn't hear her or understand. This is a problem she has always had. She cannot communicate well, and she avoids confrontation. Now I know that I wasn't listening well. If she would have fought with me about my mom (we never 'fight') and hit me over the head, I might have understood.

Then, after the class, we met with the MC. I learned there that I'm not handling my grief as well as I thought I was and my W resents it. I need to work on this more. More GALing, more learning to Stop thinking.

After the MC session, W started talking R in the car. She is angry at me for snooping. I haven't snooped for a while, and I never snooped very well, but I did. So, don't snoop. They don't like it; it doesn't help, fight the urge.

A couple of nights ago, driven by jealousy, I walked downstairs and listened for a minute at her bedroom door to see if she were on the phone to OM. She heard my footsteps and knew what I was doing. Bad idea on my part. But she did say she wasn't on the phone. I take that to mean she is not communicating with OM (it could mean she wasn't communicating then). It does matter to me and my peace of mind now, because I'm not detached and still to wrapped up in her and what she is thinking.

Lastly, she told me that she doesn’t love me and doesn’t know if she ever will again. This is the bottom line; more important then the OM or anything else I think. I wanted to tell her that love is a choice and she can choose to love me – but I knew that wouldn’t sway her. She hates to do anything, like go on a ‘date’ with me, because she doesn’t want to mislead me and doesn’t want me to have expectations. She will go to a movie with me, but we can’t call it a date.

I think that because she is talking to me sometimes, going to counseling, and professes to like and care about me, that we are Piecing. However, she doesn’t love me. I am in a dangerous position, as we all are or have been. Even though I have it better than many, I could screw this up easily. I need to DB and understand DBing.

I think she is still a WAS and MLCer. She is wearing makeup, for pretty much the first time in her life. She got her ears pierced, although she swore she never would. Her MLC may be milder than some, but I think it’s still there. So I still need to practice Last Resort techniques; mainly giving her space and work on myself.

But, it seems to me that we can have R talks, as long as there aren’t too many, too emotional, and not seen as pressuring her to make a decision and love me already. So I intend to have a few R talks and see if I can learn more about what I missed that she was telling me during our M (like how she felt about my mom, how she doesn’t like the way I do laundry, etc.). I intend to do some of the DB techniques to improve our M/R, like 180s, ‘dates’ and positive times, and (I’ll have to re-read those chapters. I didn’t think I’d get to use those techniques and I’m glad I’ll get to try) others. Mostly, I will work on myself and managing my grief. I may get my own C to help me with learning how to find my own happiness and not depend on her.

This got long. Let me know what you think please. Am I on the right track?

[lilypad]

Hey Kirby,

Thought I would check in on you. I feel ya about not seeing any action on your thread. It can make you a little crazy! Well, I finally checked your first thread to see what your sitch was like. I am SO sorry for what you have been through! It sounds shocking and it looks like you have handled yourself quite well.

My H is very non-communicative, good at acting like things are fine, then blowing me out of the water with an EA/PA - IDLY every year or two. Not sure why I am always so surprised...but that's another matter.

I have 2 things for you. 1) Once while gathering info, harassing OW about affair, she unloaded on me all the things that my H (boyfriend, engaged at the time) had told her. He felt like that since he had already "messed up" that things could never be right again. He felt like, he had already done us in, so "what was the point?" He is a perfectionist by nature, a musician and trained computer person - so this played into his view of relationships as well. I suspect that your wife may feel a little like she already screwed up, that you already screwed up with your A (it's irrelevant who went first) - so how could this be saved. Also, I am sure it's not just you she is thinking of. Considering that she left the kids as well, as a mother, I know I would feel a TON of guilt over that. She is probably having a hard time reconciling what she may believe she has done to them. Just a thought. It has taken a LONG time (12 years) for my H to get that people screw up, relationships are hard, and only the two of us can decide what is OK for us. We don't have to be perfect for an outside gaze or for the one in the mirror. I come from a religious upbringing and seem to have forgiveness (to a fault!) running through my veins. He did not have the same and is more of a hardliner. Is your wife the black and white type? I suspect you are the shades-of-gray peacekeeper? Tough place to be. Anyway, no real suggestions for you on exactly what to do. Just some POV thoughts to consider.

2) Has anyone else here suggested that you slow down a bit on the DBing? What I mean is, IMHO, it looks like you are looking a little further ahead than maybe you should. Trust me, I understand wanting, desiring positive change and quick results. But you have to remember you are only a few months into this game, especially since W has not been home long. (I know it feels an ETERNITY to you.) Again, IMHO you should still be focusing on detaching, 180's, and GAL. Of course, go to counseling - if wife wants to do so, but if not - don't push it. Matter of fact, don't push anything else. No R talk, unless she instigates. Even then, only respond matter-of-factly (not emotional) to her. Also, my H NEVER wanted to hear about DB. He thinks it's weird! I am no DB expert but I am not sure you are in need of LRT quite yet or that you are to piecing yet. Again, I may be wrong. Others, feel free to right me!!

My therapist, who suggested Michele's approach to me, said something MANY years ago that has just now been hitting home. "If someone is drowning, does it do them any good to hang around their neck? No, they are going to violently push you away to keep from going under. So, why are you hanging onto his neck?" Your W is drowning. She thought this OM (grass is greener) had something for her she thought was missing. She went. She feels terrible for leaving - you and the kids. Possibly, she is discovering that he wasn't all she dreamed of. If she doesn't know this now - she will, eventually. Now, she is in the thick of it. Trying to figure out who she is, what she wants, all still in the middle of this family she loves and knew she dreamed of having at one time. She is a wreck - she is drowning. Here is the worst part, and I know this from experience, YOU CANNOT SAVE HER. You CAN save yourself. I have been DBing since March 06 and am still working detaching, 180's, GAL. I am just now starting to see positive results w/ H - and there are OW still out there, though contact has grown to almost nil. He is interested in me again. We always have tons to talk about, he seeks me out - but we RARELY talk about our relationship. We just have one. I have had to learn that's going to have to be OK with me. He's not a talker about serious things, especially those he knows he has had fault in - again, the perfectionist.

So, after these 10 months, something weird has happened to me. I have confidence. Seems out of nowhere. I didn't even know it was missing until it came back so strongly. I get down, I worry but NEVER like I used to. I know I am giving it my all, that I am awesome, have things going for me, and could always make it on my own if it came to that. I don't think I have felt like that since I met my H. Hence, I guess I have finally let go of the drowning guy. He likes it much better (obviously) and I found I can swim, even against the tide, on my own.

Sorry to be SO LONG and get poetic on you - but I'm a poet. Just can't help it sometimes!!

I'll keep checking on you. Keep us posted.

[kirby]

Wow, lots of good stuff, thanks much!

My wife probably is a black and white type person. I can't say I know her anymore, so I hate to say. She will do or say something that makes me think she is very intellegent and insightful, but then she is also non-communicative and does things that show to me that she isn't seeing what to me is obvious. She is very concerned with being seen as 'competent'. It's hard to be a competent mom and wife if you leave your kids and H - she might be thinking she can't fix that. Good insight. Wish I knew what action I could take from that. Maybe just understanding.

I think GH, TL and others have suggested that I'm lacking patience and need to focus on me, not the R, for a while, so I guess your advise fits in with that. I think you are right. I need to slow down. I get the feeling from the MC that he thinks we should be talking and working on this. I'm still trying to figure out what I should do. I think your advise makes sense though, and I need to let go of her neck.

If it took you 10 months, I wonder how many years it will take me I hear you and others talk about getting to that place, but it's hard for me to imagine what that place is like. You must be incredibly strong to have done what you've done. I admire your strength and will try to copy it.

[Concerned_Listener]

Kirby,
It sounds like you two are in Piecing to me--though in the early stages. The fact that she came back and has been home for two months, gives you an opportunity to work on the R.

You're struggle is the trust issues, and feelings of insecurity. These are your issues to manage. You will have to practice strategies that are soothing, distracting, and promote tolerance of distressing emotions. It sounds like you realize the snooping behavior is not helpful. You will work on containing it. You will need to work on acceptance of the current state of the R, and that she is somewhat distant at this time.

I commend you for the work you're putting into Piecing--marriage counseling, educations classes, and reading. This is sound preparation for increasing awareness of what you will need to work on to influence the R in a positive way to get the R in a place you want.

Concerned_Listener