Well, I thought I'd have a plan of action after sleeping on it, but I don't yet. Still working on reconciling all this.
One thing I do know is that my highest priority is taking care of myself. Here's the story.
I followed my coach's suggestion and when I was leaving a voicemail about insurance for my wife yesterday I ended it by telling her that she had made me feel respected in the last couple of conversations (entirely true) and that I appreciated it. When she called back we actually had a big laugh. I think it's been months.
Picking the kids up last night there was a delay (waiting for gymnastics to end) and we were having pleasant small talk. By the end of it I was sick to my stomach. Last night I felt empty. And this morning, rage against her like I'd never felt before. Over how she's treated me, and what she's doing to me and our family. Over every little thing that's pissed me off over the years and I've kept silent about instead of addressing.
I put it all down on paper, and at the end of it I was like "You know what, I can find someone who will treat me better."
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Here's something interesting. Today, I'm finding this odd balance of loving my wife and resenting the approval I sought from her. I'm thinking those "Well Differentiated People" characteristics Lillieperl had me tape to my mirror are sinking in
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
So I had the meeting with my wife tonight. I saw web addresses of divorce sites next to her compter, so I knew what to expect.
I started out, like my coach suggested, saying that I had thought about divorce, and had seen more pros than I expected. And that I thought we should work together to find the best solution for us both.
She worked her way around the subject for several minutes. Quite a bit of the conversation is stuck in my brain, so I'll put it here for the curious.
W: You keep bringing up that I was so mean to you. On Christmas I think you used the work "cruel" and said that I had been that way with you. I do not want to be the abuser in a relationship. That is not who I want to be, and so I want out... and so I was going to ask you for a divorce. (The "was going to" was at best a subliminal slip. Every indication was that she was saying with certainty that that was what she wanted, but just couldn't bring herself to say it so directly then.)
I just looked back at her, trying to look like she had said what I expected she would say, and I waited for her to move on. She eventually said she didn't think I wanted to talk tonight because I knew what she was going to say, and just didn't want to talk about it.
I said I was pretty sure I knew what she was going to say, but that I cared about what she had to say, and so I was there to talk.
She cries from this point on. With the issue out on the table, having met no resistance, she moved on to relationship points. I know that one of the key tenets of DBing is to not talk about the relationship, so I kept it in mind to not let it turn into an argument. But she has issues she's still trying to resolve within herself, and I thought I had answers, and so I let it happen.
W: I guess you feel like I've been blaming you for everything, and so now you want to blame me. I guess that's fair.
M: I felt like it was something I needed to say, like I had gone for too long trying to sweep problems under the rug, and not confronting them. Maybe it was wrong to hold it all in for so long and then just dump it on you, but I needed to come clean with it. But I don't think that was you. I think that we didn't know how to meet each other's needs, and then we just got stuck in a cycle that kept degerating.
(She agrees with me here.)
W: You didn't want to have sex with me. You wouldn't take the medicine. It must have been because I was so cruel to you.
M: I was stuck. I could not do what was inside of me. I didn't know what was going on, and I didn't know what to do. It's horrible that it's taken me moving out to get a grip, but now I finally am starting to feel good about myself again. I understand what was going on. Back then, I didn't feel like a man, so I couldn't make you feel like a woman.
W: Why don't you feel like a man? Did someone do something to you when you were a kid?
M: (explained the FOO stuff)
W: Why would you want to be married to someone so cruel?
W: You want everyone to know that you are the victim, that you want to stay in this relationship, and that I'm the bad guy.
M: Stop. I have faced every one of my mistakes and weaknesses head on like a man, so far, but I will not agree to that. I have not said or done anything of the sort.
W: Well my girlfriends keep saying "he's still in love with you. he wants to work it out."
W: Why are you still wearing your wedding ring?
M: Why are you asking me that? (I don't like where this conversation's going)
W: You keep wearing it so everyone can see.
M: I'm wearing it because I want to. It has nothing to do with anyone but me.
W: It has to do with me and you.
Here I change the subject for a few minutes, and then she notes that I changed the subject and brings it back around to why I'm wearing the ring. I ask her if she wants me to take it off, and she doesn't answer. I finally just say "I've old you why I'm wearing it. Why do you keep asking?" To which she replies "fine." Actually, the reasons I've given thus far are "because I'm still married," "because I'm in love with you," and "because I want to."
M: I've read a lot about women who have been in your situation, and I understand now what a complete mindf*ck it can be to feel like your husband doesn't desire you. I know the pain can go very deep, and so I'm sorry that I made you feel like that.
W: Tears
W: But some of this stuff has gone back to the beginning of our relationship.
M: Yeah. And some of it has gone back to the beginning of Rigley.
At some point she accused me of just giving in to her tonight "like I always do".
M: I have my thoughts and you have yours. I didn't come here to argue with you or try to shove something down your throat. One of the things you've said that's hit me the hardest is that you feel like I control you. For anyone to control you would be a tragedy. You're smart, you have a mind of your own, you have a good heart. I think what I think, but I also respect what you think.
W: Sometimes I think that that's one of my issues that goes back to childhood. That feeling controlled is really from back then.
M: I resist the urge to nod.
W: You seem like you're really trying to control yourself. Like you're trying to keep yourself from saying something.
M: (Realizing she's right and that I need to losen up.) Yeah, I'm trying to make sure I'm being truthful...saying what I mean.
W: It's like we don't know each other anymore.
M: (I realize then that I'm starting to fall into one of those distant roles like parent/teacher and I need to losen way up, so I do.)
W: Sometimes you're all friendly with me and chatty, and I don't know what to do with that. I don't know how to treat you.
So much more was said, and what's above is out of order, I'm sure, but I'll try to sum it up. She was trying to be firm about wanting divorce, but has done nothing except read a little. She lamented some about how she's given up her retirement, how I'm lucky to have the kids on the weekend, how she wants the house, but I probably want it too, how I make twice as much as her.
At one point she asks why I had photocopied the kids report cards. She admits she's wondered if I was trying to document something to use against her (how you would use really good grades against someone I don't know, but...). And I assure her again that I want her to be happy, that I have no intention of trying to take the kids away from her or screw her financially.
This is where some may think I've said "please divorce me." But I honestly think I scored in taking this "I care about you approach." This girl is absolutely alone for the first time in her life, and she is scared sh!tless. She admitted that she has no one.
Toward the end, I took the dog out to gather myself. From then on, I felt like I her guard was down, and she was actually letting herself feel the love. I ended the conversation, and left.
When I talked about what was happening with me now, I didn't feel like I was trying to sell her. I felt like it was obvious that I'm doing great, and if she cared to know, here was why. That is, it wasn't just talk.
----
So ... I don't really have any reason to be hopeful for our relationship, but D@mn I feel good about myself. I have completely hamstrung that old fear I used to have (last week) of talking to my wife about difficult subjects. I felt strong, and secure, and loving, and in control. I didn't backtrack once. I didn't say anything that I didn't mean in order to get her to say what I wanted. It was a huge confidence builder for me that I will build on.
If you asked me for an assessment, I'd be optimistic and say that while she still has a lot of anger, it has dissipated noticibly. She still dreads the idea of doing the divorce procedures, sees her life ahead as not so great, but thinks that this is what she has to do to be happy. I think I reversed the poor image I portrayed of myself on Christmas, and gained ground, showing he someone she should want to be with. But the sex issue is still a leap for her. She has boiled it down to its worst in order to help herself find the resolve to pursue this course, and I think it would take quite a bit for her to try sex again. In fact, I fully expect that right now she's rehashing our conversation, looking for other more devious angles that I might have been taking, and letting her anger grow back to the point where it can motivate her to leave me. If so, there's really nothing I can do about that, is there.
Thank you to all of you who have offered words of wisdom and advice. Over the last week it's seemed difficult to reconcile, but just in time clarity came, and it all synthesized into something that was solid and genuine and dependable. So when it came time to talk in detail, it was (mostly) natural and good.
I still wonder why you think she will go through with a divorce? I see no aggression on her part at all. Having a few web addresses written down is nothing IMHO. Anyway, she probabably did that for your benefit. The logical thing to do would have been just to bookmark them. Why write them down? I don't see the momentum it would take to actually contact one of those web addresses, go see the person, have him/her draw up papers, realize that she will actually be filing a lawsuit against you... I just don't see it happening. (Not that you shouldn't keep the possibility in mind.)
She is using the only "weapon" she feels she has in her arsenal to keep your attention, to let you know she's serious.
What if you showed her the differentiation stuff and told her this is the way you want to live now for yourself and for the two of you. IOW show her a concrete plan for how you want things to be different. (You can truthfully say you found it on the internet. Someone's therapist had given it to a couple.)
Why do I think she will go through with a divorce? You're right that she doesn't have the momentum currently to go through the work for a divorce on her own. In our meeting, for instance, she barely had enough to keep it on the topic of divorce, rather than our previous relationship.
It's even clearer to me after last night that she wants me to hold her hand as we walk through the process. And it's not because she's not capable. I think it's because she doesn't want to end up on the other side of this being the woman who broke up her family. For my part, I intend to hold her hand, but take a step only after she's taken a step.
That's why she keeps bringing up the ring. She knows I don't want a divorce and it's making her feel guilty and mad.
The other reason she wants us to go through the process, and I think she wouldn't admit this, is that she wants my comfort. She's got no one. We've planned our lives together since we were practically kids. She feels alone and uncertain.
Do I think she'll go through with a divorce? If I don't give her a reason to escalate her anger, and if I also don't push it along, it's going to take a heck of a lot of determination. So far, she's been fueled by anger, fear, and pain, and restrained by guilt, practicality, and a bit of love. The anger is subsiding, but she could invent reasons to be angry (like being angry at me for not doing the divorce for her). The pain persists, and she can pretend that it will go away if we divorce. But how to overcome the fear that she won't be sexually fulfilled. That's a hard one.
I just realized that you're saying that she's pursuing divorce to show me that she's serious. Do you think she's waiting to see something from me that gives her permission to back down?
