Rebirth to a New Life II

[SweetRedd]

Hi Jeff I forgot you moved, but my brain finally kicked in! There is an article by MWD about a man who busted his divorce by deciding to treat his WAW as a beloved friend. Could you find it and read it maybe? That is what Joe did. Yes, I thought he was being selfish and controlling at the time, but our sitch turned me from a LBS to a WAS and like every other WAS, I had to find my way back. He DID detach while still loving and standing by me. He detached from my reactions and stopped allowing them to control his choices. When I pointed out he was selfish and controlling by not letting go, he pointed out that I was being controlling by expecting our family to make my solution work. We were both right in a way. He wanted one thing and I wanted another. That in itself is not selfish or controlling.. that is a difference of choice and opinion. How can him refusing to NOT stop loving, supporting and being friendly to me be controlling? It only controls me to the extent that I let it. I had it pointed out to me by a dear friend that I could stop him from every contacting me, and shove him completely out of my life if I was determined to do that. And, if I had done that, got a restraining order, etc, no doubt he'd have walked away, finally convinced it was over. I have to give him credit. It wasnt easy for him to detach and still send the message that he was there for me and hoping I'd reconsider. He had to deal with a lot of anger from me at times. At times he did step over the line and apply pressure that I didnt want. Thank God he did. Now that I think about it, I'm SO thankful that I have a man in my life that is so determined to give our children the best that he wouldn't allow me to take our family away from them without a fight.

Wait, wait, wait.. well, he did a lot of that, but he wasn't just waiting on me to decide. His decision was to be the best man he could be, for himself, his children and hopefully for me too. If that was as a friend and co-parent, he said he'd deal with that, but if it was as a husband, he'd be thrilled. Regardless of the outcome, he wanted to give us the best. I didnt have to sign up to marry him again for him to assure me that he would still give his children's mother what she deserves. I think alot of that was to make up for his guilt maybe, but it's still an honorable goal.

I'm a little callous.. if the gift bothered her.. so what. That is definately HER problem. You didnt send her a dozen roses and a 100 page loveletter to her office. You gave her a nice gift and stated your feelings, truthfully. You have the right to state your feelings. She can reject them if she chooses. She could have point blank not accepted the gift. You both have a right to choose your paths. She might not admire your decision to not give up at the moment, and she might not ever realize what a selfless gift your offering her, but then again, it could go the other way also. Whatever your truth is, live it. Respect her boundaries, but in order to do that, she has to enforce them also. OK, she doesnt want you to give her gifts... then don't because now you know she has a problem with it. If she goes as far as saying you can't be kind, supportive and compassionate, then she's stepping on your boundaries.

Whatever choice you make, it doesnt have to be black and white. Life evolves.. we change.. we heal.. we travel. The best you can do is live your truth today. You are a Christian man.. I heard something on the radio yesterday that touched me deeply. The man said "In a world of faith, my beauty is defined by Him" As christians, our lives should be defined by Him. The world will tell us a lot of things, but as long as you're straight with the man upstairs, fear not (did you know the bible says that 365 times? one for every day!). I hardly doubt that Jesus would have a problem with forgiveness, compassion, unconditional love, working on your own problems, and well, saving a marriage. I don't doubt either that whatever happens, He planned for it in your life and will make the best of it. The best advice I ever got was "work on yourself and let God take care of J". Being the man you were meant to be, making your choices based on your beliefs is not selfish... it's only selfish if you refuse to consider others or harm them. Most of this has been done your W's way. You given her most of what she's asked for, but no one has a right to tell you what to feel, hope for, how to love, or when to stay or walk away.
Rambly, preachy.. sorry!

Huggs!

Sheila

[princess_nic]

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff...

I'm in an a$$-kickin' mood today, so get ready.

You said just yesterday (I think) that you now understand how you can work on yourself and your M (btw, I believe that I was the one whom you told that was impossible). Now you say that being detached is walking away.

Here is how I see it, but it's taken me a LONG time to get here: I am not so invested in my M anymore b/c I am happy on my own and getting happier and stronger. However, I would still like to be with my H. I am still working on myself and my own issues, but when I see H, I am friendly and upbeat, don't argue...basically, use the DB techniques. This is working really well for me. I am detached in the sense that I am not tied to the outcome.

Jeff, I was going to stay away from the gift, but I will wade in. I don't think the problem was actually giving a gift; I think it was what you wrote in the card and the type of gift. Jewellery is a very intimate gift. Gold earrings are expensive and personal, not something you would give a "friend." Jeff, she's not your wife right now. I know she was, I know you had many years together, but right now, she owes you nothing. You need to be starting from scratch. If you had just met this woman a few months ago, would you give her a gift like that and a card that reads, "I am praying that you will go on a date with me"??!!

Re. the card: Hon, a card that says you're praying that she'll change her mind (essentially), can you really not see how pressuring that is? You say that her email is telling you that she's right and you're wrong, but did your card not do that to her?

Look, I'm not saying you have to wait. I'm not saying her behaviour is great. What I'm saying is, you are still way too invested in this relationship. If you want to continue trying to make your M work, you are going to have to find a way to let go more. If that's what you want to do, we can help you with that, but you need to make a real decision here.

~ Nicola

[Jeff223]

Thanks for the inputs. I do appreciate them. More than you all know.

I admit I f**ked up on the gift and the card. But so what? I must let it go (thanks WCW).

Fig: I admit I do still have an agenda and that I am trying desperately to control my destiny and therefore control her. That is how I was raised – to stand up for yourself, work hard, carve out your destiny. I must let that go.

Nicola, I admit that I do still have too much invested in the R. I was fine until the holidays, starting at Halloween. I was detached and loving me for who I am.

I admit I am angry, frustrated and scared to death again.

The holidays. Seeing my kids crying when they leave their mom and crying when they leave me. Does Santa go to both houses? Seeing my kids opening presents without Mommy there. Do we leave the gift here or at the “other” house? My kids asking when mommy and daddy are getting back together. Realizing what I pissed away.

Sorry BBA that I appear to be confused and in MLC as you put it. Sorry for being that human. But thanks for caring enough to lay it on the line, including the much appreciated cold bucket of water.

So I do pray for another chance. And frankly I wanted her to know it. I now realize that was a dumb move but as Sheila says I have a right to express my feelings and she can reject them if she wants (Sheila: BTW she did return the earrings). Yes, I did apply pressure but know what – here is this woman who destroyed me emotionally and I should worry about pressuring HER?

Yes, I guess I would if I were detached and not angry.

Nicola, I remember now it was to you that I said it was impossible to detach and to leave the door open. I thought I had that figured out finally – but I guess I do not. But I am thinking hard about your one statement: “I am detached in the sense that I am not tied to the outcome.” By the way, where was the a$$ kicking? Your post was right on. Thanks.

I do not like what I am seeing in the mirror. I so wanted to change but I did not. I don’t know where to go from here.

Enough of this self-pity; I got some more thinking to do. I am ready to put it in God’s hands, if I only knew how.

[WCW]

Jeff, you don't need to be sorry for being human. We don't get it right all the time. That's ok. Now if you go out and buy gold earrings and write a note and do it all again for Valentines Day....

BBA said "WCW is saying that you are proclaiming your intent to "stand", and that I don't get that, and her implication is that I'm not a "stander". I don't know how she makes that judgment about me, but that's beside the point."
Misinterpretation of what I said. Not implying and not judging, I don't know you or your story well enough to do that. What I was saying is to read up on what/who Jeff was referring to. For our convenience, Piglet came here and gave a Readers Digest version of what has happened with her. Thanks Sheila!

When I saw Jeff start a new thread in this forum, I knew he was in bad spot with his emotional/mental health. Does that mean MLC? or that he slumped like we all do. Look at the title of this forum. You're nowhere close to here Jeff, the physical state of your M is not Divorced but not Done. Don't get off the horse, it ain't dead yet. It might not work quite like Piglet, or kml, or grasshopper, or Sven, or Xue, or even AmyC and FIB and whatisis and the others who have been waiting - but it's not Done.

How's that go Jeff? = Strength and Honor.

Keep your chin up, eyes on the horizon.

[faithisbelieving]

Jeff....I spoke with you and you know my sentiments on what happened. I posted something on my thread, inspirational....thinking mostly about you. Stay strong. Frank

[BaseballAnnie]

Thanks for stopping by my thread. That was very kind of you, but no thank you's to me are necessary. I didn't do anything, didn't say anything useful. You've got good folks around you, though, so you will be fine, I know.

I wish you the best.
BA

[Jeff223]

Cold yet? It was 73 deg here yesterday and warm again today. I want snow!!!

I don't remember the exact date but my bomb was mid-Jan 06. What a year since!

The bomb was a suprise but that was b/c my head was up my rear. She did give it a lot of thought before Jan 06. Honestly I really think she is through. So I may send what Sheila wrote - I cannot lose really IF I expect nothing in return.

She threatened to leave between end Jan to end of April but could not. I do not mean did not - she could not. I left b/c something told me to. The 'let her go and if she is right for you she will return' BS. Just before I left she confided in me that she had decided not to leave. She was that weak and confused. I left anyway - I thought it was the loving unselfish thing to do. Loving thing? She asked me for D a month later.

Do I regret that I did not stay home? Yes and no. I have found that it is almost impossible to DB when they cannot see your changes on a daily basis. In that respect I messed up.

But what would I have stayed home with? A confused and weak person who whould only blame me each day that she was not strong enough to leave on her own. Is that what I desire? What would that say about me?

Plus if I had stayed at home I would not have turned into the father that I have become, I am absolutely certain. Why, b/c the kids were (are) her whole focus. I would not have been able to take them on two vacations (which they still go on and on about) and I would never have gotten the one on one time I get now. That was God's gift to me.

Did W use me just to have kids? That is a very interesting thought. I don't think so but it is a result here nevertheless.

Imagine, now I get them 40% of the year and they are all mine. When we were married I got them 5%. What is better? But the kids deserve both parents - that is why I am standing by the M.

But you know what, I don't think I want her back - too much water under the bridge. I am really ready to move on now. The holiday/earrings proves that. I neeeded that last pity party to see that.

[Holly06]

Jeff,
I do not usually post to you, so I hope you do not mind, but logic tells me to sit on that thought for 24 to 48 hours,or longer if you can to see if it still applies. Keep that here on the boards and to yourself. Do not share that with anyone who could get that to wife. I want you have control here, and not tip your hand to your W. Don't give up that hard earned attitude. I hear you are a great guy, and I can't help but think what would W do when and if she really realizes she lost you? You deserve happiness, so keep your upper hand here, OK?
Holly
Cheers,
Holly

[Jeff223]

Thanks so much for stopping by Holly. Seems we joined here the same time.

I will follow your advice. Part of me wants to continue trying but part of me does not. She would have to change (and I need a lot more work also) for this to work. It really would mean building a new R.

My earlier venting aside, I want to stand by my M by fully supporting my family but to me it also means really letting her go and even expediting the D if that is what is necessary. Does that make any sense to the folks here? Or am I muddled up again?

BBA wrote: “You can do both. You have to. You have to accept that even if you stand, you can't control the outcome. And you can't control her. The only thing you can control is you.” Good advice I had forgotten.

I lost sight of what detachment meant until I read the responses to me here, and on other threads. I do have too much invested. I need to stop focusing on the R and how to fix it. That is controlling. Her reactions should not influence me one way or the other provided I am doing things that do not hurt her and that I am true to myself. In fact, I should respect her reactions even if I do not agree.

Thanks again for stopping by – means a lot.

[Holly06]

Eerything but expediting the D. That looks like it could be a future regret for you.
Everything else is good to go! Fits all future situations.
I like you need a new and better R with H in the future. Getting back to who we were pre kids, and adding in maturity. I think that this is all possible because of his MLC. We would not get there without this.
Holly