So I made it to the 8th before breaking my New Year's resolution. I promise to do better the rest of the year.
Here's what I told her: I really like that place. I feel comfortable there. What you're seeing as controlling behavior, is confidence. You just aren't used to seeing it in me.
What I want for last Christmas is for you to add the phrase "Yep, that's me" to your repertoire and use it until everyone in your life begs you to stop. Of course you can't really use it unti you know who you are. Are you a man who puts his arm around his wife in church? Are you a man who drops his daughter off and picks her up when that seems like the thing to do?
She "kind of" apologized, in that she said she was kind of stressed and probably over-reacted; but she also said that I needed to be sensitive to that, and "tone it down."
Is it you? Then don't tone it down. Be you. I saw one of those stupid quips on the internet the other day that said, "I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not." Does she hate who you really are? Does she dislike who you really are? Is she irritated by who you really are? If who you are is a man who needs to make her happy and who needs to make sure she doesn't leave, then be that guy and delight in it!
If you're another thing then be that and don't let her tell you who that is. If you're a disrespectful misogynist jerk then spend 2007 perfecting your condescending sneer and dripping-with-sarcasm tone of voice. If you're patronizing and inconsiderate then polish up your smug expression and that blank look you get when you don't understand why everybody's picking on you.
So here's how my version of your 2007 looks:
Her: I didn't like how you put your arm around me. It seemed paternalistic. You: Yep, that's me! I'm a little protective and paternalistic sometimes. Her: You're going to work on that, right? You: No. I kind of like that about me. My flaws make me interesting.
Her: That was pretty controlling, dropping off DD5 and then picking her up. You: Naw. That's just the way it worked out. Her: <brings up ten billion ways you've been controlling previously including in past lives (taking particular relish in detailing your unbearable heavy-handedness as Genghis Khan) and comapres you to other men she knows or has heard about or has some vague recollection of that were controlling b4st4rds> You: That's wild, isn't it? But you know, sometimes I drop off DD5 and sometimes I pick her up. I promise not to hog all the action, though. That would be wrong.
Of course, you'd be running the risk that she decides you're a bad guy and leaves. You might want to always err on the side of caution so she never has a legitimate complaint with you. That's not my recommendation; I'm just sayin'.
(Cobra) Not too long ago some of the women here were gushing over Dieda, wishing their husbands were like him, caring, attentive, yet quietly strong and self assured. A woman has no problem in justifying that a man put her first in his thoughts and the purpose of his life’s mission.
Just so we're clear, you're not saying that part in bold is Deida's position, right? Because if it is we read totally different books. Mine has a chapter called "She Doesn't Really Want to Be Number One."
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Lil: I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I say, that you shop at WalMart. And you call yourself a Jew? Oy.
As for Deida, yeah, yeah, I'll get around to reading him someday.
On another matter, my W goes in to the hospital tomorrow for an outpatient procedure. I'm taking the day off work. I recall about 2 years ago when I had a double hernia repair, I was in the pre-op bed, W was sitting in the room...she said to me, "Do you need me to be here right now?" I said, "no. I suppose not." And she left, to go to work. They wheeled me in, put me under, and I woke up a couple hours later, alone. Had to push the button to get an attendant to walk with me to the john. She showed up a couple hours after that, and drove me home shortly thereafter.
martyr martyr martyr....
I know I was partially to blame for responding that I didn't need her with me that day, but I can't imagine the thought crossing my mind in such a moment to even suggest that I won't stay by her side.
Now, if I can just bite my tongue tomorrow when that dark side of me wants to comment on that incident.
That's a good one, burg. I'm honored to have been the cause of you breaking your New Year's Resolution. And, heck, I'm only dialed up to "4" or "5". Wait till I hit "11".
a man put her first in his thoughts and the purpose of his life’s mission.
Yeah, I guess I left out some parts. As I read Dieda, I understood the man's role is to share the gifts of his life's purpose with his woman. His mission (what ever that might be) is his purpose, not his woman.
Harry,
There have been a few times when I had the chance that is coming to you know. My mother told me long ago that I should have treated W the way she treated me, but I would never do it. But she was right. Those few times when I was able to do the same to her as she did, she never said anything because she knew what she had done first, and she then knew how it felt. Your wife has NO sense of empathy, zero, zilch. The only way she will come to understand how she treats others is the receive that treatment herself.
It might seem cruel to make the same comment to her about whether she needs you in the room, but on the other you might actually be doing her a favor in the long run, IF she can put two and two together and realize how you felt.
I also suggest you pick up Dieda sooner rather than later.
And, heck, I'm only dialed up to "4" or "5". Wait till I hit "11".
11? Is that for when you need that extra push over the cliff?
Yep, that's me.
Now, who's gonna buy me the t-shirt?
I discovered in 2006 that I'm high maintenance. That pisses me off to no end. You can't even imagine. I've been sure for all these years that I'm easy going. Turns out I'm high maintenance.
Believe me when I tell you...if I can admit to being high maintenance, you can admit to being paternalistic. I scoff at "paternalistic". "High maintenance" has bits of "paternalistic" in its stool.
Last edited by Burgbud; 01/09/0702:24 AM.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Interesting that she wrote a book about the proper care and feeding of marriage. She has been asked many times to write a book called the "Proper Care and Feeding of women". She has not and she is straight to the point on this, it would not work. Effectively, if the women works on the marriage, she has the tools to save it. If the husband and the wife work on it, they have the tools to save it. If ONLY the husband works on it, he does NOT have the tools to save it.
Have YOU read Dieda? IMO, that is the woman's version of Schlessinger. It is for YOU to read, just as Schlessinger is for your wife to read. Warm her up to Schlessinger by giving her Dieda first. But before that, you need to be sure you know what he proposes.
I think what your W really needs is a friend like me. Someone who is just as much of a feminist/Unitarian type but not stuck back in the Cold War era in my thinking. The fact of the matter is that there are some things about conventional sexism AND some things about conventional feminism that should just be tossed in the barrel labeled STUPIDITY. Human beings as a species, compared to other species, are slightly sexually dimorphic. Men and women are different but not very different and there's all sorts of overlap. That is why we pop pink or blue booties on our kids as soon as they pop out of the womb. It's easy for us to get confused about our gender identities or roles because they are confusing. That is also why men aren't usually sexually attracted to women who are shaped like bowling balls or flagpoles and women aren't attracted to men who are shaped like pears or absent of arm muscle, it's too hard to figure out what color booties that person might have worn in the nursery.
Now if I were your wife and you behaved as you did at the church, I would have no problem with it. I would probably even appreciate it but that would be because I don't have any problem accepting a culturally "female" sex role in that setting. I might see your behavior as being just as "paternalistic" but I would like it. I might even make me horny as in "Mmmmm, HairDog taking charge, being protective, very nice. Perhaps, a post-church "nap" would be in order.".
I guess what I'm saying is that there is something "smart" about modern egalitarian relationships because the truth is that most of the time in most situation in our modern culture and in modern marriage we can function as grown-up "baby its" wearing neutral yellow booties. However, in order to be sexual we need to figure out how to smoothly transition into our appropriate sex roles in order to function. I think that the more differentiated and the more self-aware we are the easier it is to make this transition and the more subtle AND the more over-the-top our sexual signaling can be. Neither the fact that we're both dressed in overalls or the fact that my H like to see me in a French Maid's costume and I like to see him in a Pirate's mask would impede our functioning.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
First, Cobra, I didn't leave her at the hospital or make any remarks about what happened a couple years ago. Kind of following burgbud's email, that's just not me. In fact, if anything, I did the exact opposite, and I enjoyed it. The nurturing side of me came out, and, whether or not W appreciated it (I know she did, btw), I enjoyed taking care of her. I don't get to do that very often, because she generally eschews this kind of being taken care of.
But last night, I told her that I was going into work early today. Normally, I reserve Wednesday mornings as a late start day, so that she and I can spend some time together, and I can help her get DD5 ready for school. When I told her that I was going to work early, she made a kind of surprised, sad, puppy dog face, but I told her, rather confidently, that I had just taken an entire day off to be with her, and that I had to get back to work. She didn't push it.
MJ: I really wish my W had a friend like you, too. Thanks for your analysis of the situation.
A couple of vignettes: Tuesday morning, at about 2 am, W woke up with doomsday thoughts about the fact that she was going to have to have a general anesthetic for this surgery. Thoughts of death, thoughts of what she wanted me to do for our DD5 after her death, etc., filled her head and she shared them with me in the dark. And this: "I know I haven't been a very good wife to you. If I live through this, I promise to be better."
What do you do with a statement like that? I could have taken the opportunity to say, "you're telling me! I'm glad you actually recognize this fact! And just what, exactly, do you mean by the promise that you'll be 'better'?"
But, of course, that's not what I did. Instead, I chose to be the empathetic guy that she sometimes says I am capable of being. I pooh-poohed the thought that she wasn't a very good wife and I didn't even touch the comment about being better in the future.
Someday, somewhere, sometime, these Karma points will be able to be redeemed, won't they?
And one last thing. As the nurse was going over the post-operative care sheets (btw, she found out before the surgery that she could have a spinal anesthetic, and, after discussing it with the anesthesiologist, decided to go with the general), the nurse said "...and put nothing into the vaginal vault for two to three weeks. This includes tampons, fingers, and, of course, no intercourse."
Wait. Vaginal vault? Vault? VAULT!!?? That explains so much to me. This is the key, gentlemen! I need to get out of this forum and join the safe-crackers and lock-pickers forum.
