Still on the journey 2

[still.struggling]

Nicola,
Just wanted you to know I am thinking about you. I haven't forgotten you. Even if I don't post, I am still reading your thread and keeping up with you.

Many hugs to you!!!!

[princess_nic]

Thank you all. I feel so much better today. I think getting all that out of my system made me feel better. I will reply to your posts, but I wanted to say a few(!) other things first.

In the spirit of positivity, I will say that my childhood was not a Little Shop of Horrors. My mother is a very creative and fun person. She used to make me fabulous Halloween, skating and ballet costumes. We were *forced* to eat HOMEMADE cookies and cereal b/c the other stuff had "no nutritional value." Now, I am thankful b/c I have very good eating habits! My mum would sit and paint or play with my brother and me for hours. She took us to children's concerts at the symphony and to the ballet.

My dad was and is a real outdoorsman. He taught me how to cross-country ski, canoe and camp. He took us all wilderness camping and portaging in the summer. He gave me a real appreciation of nature and a love of the outdoors. He is also a good handyman, speaks four languages fluently, though he only grew up with one, and has travelled to many different places around the world with his work. I have been fortunate to meet people from all over the place when they have come to my parents' home.

I get along a lot better with them now. My dad has really mellowed. He had a stroke at 45 from stress, and it totally mellowed him out!! He has had only a few lasting effects (reading, vision). My mum and I are close, but she drives me nuts a lot of the time. She is extremely sensitive and passively controlling. She does love me and the kids to pieces, though. So I work on establishing boundaries with her, and on being kind and patient. DB has helped there.

Last night, I spoke to D10 about her granny. She told me that when my mother acts like that, D feels like she isn't a good enough grand-daughter (echoes from the past, I tell you). I told her I understand exactly how she feels, and to just remember that it's NOT about her, it's about granny. It's NOT her fault.

Over the holiday, I made an extra effort to pay attention to D10 and the change in her behaviour has been amazing. Her T told me that she really wanted my attention more than anything (so hard when you're the only one). There have been fewer fights with her brother and far fewer meltdowns.

Yes, I AM a good mother. My children are both very attached to me, so I guess I haven't totally screwed up! I just see so much of myself in my D--perfectionism, hyper-responsibility--that it worries me. I think the therapy is good for her, though. She goes for another three months.

Okay, next post to reply.

[ashmo17]

Hi Nicola,

I just realized that we've talked alot on MY thread...but not on yours!
I, too, just read this thread from the beginning...
I personally think that you are doing a very good job of just taking things one day at a time and giving yourself the chance to go through all the doors of your life and processing both the good and the bad...and allowing yourself closure and healing. I know what you mean as far as our own families...and then having guilt for what our children are now being subjected to. I have been a christian since I was 9 Nicola...but, like you, I decided to get re-baptized about a year ago. It wasn't that I wasn't a christian anymore...but it was the fact that I wasn't walking and living how God created me to be. I allowed my own relationship with God to be just like a drive thru pharmacy...I only talked to him when I needed something. I knew the Bible...but it was stories at that point...not God's spoken word directly to me! And I realized when this all began...although it is easy for us to point fingers at our spouses because they decided to do something action wise to put the ball in motion....this was a wake-up call for me too. My XH's crisis caused a crisis in my own life...and after I had the breakdown, and I was sitting in my dark living room with pills in my hand for the second time...full of despair, anguish, pain, whatever word you want to put in there...it was THEN that I heard God speak to me...and His voice was the most beautiful sound. I hadn't heard that voice for a long time...NOT because He wasn't talking to me...it was because I wasn't listening! Sitting on my living room floor I heard Jeremiah 29:11~~~For I know the plans that I have for you; plans for your good and not to harm you; plans to give you a future with hope~~~and it was in that moment I realized I WASN'T alone...He was ALWAYS there....it was the fact that I ran away from Him!
So to tell you the truth...I praise God for these trials...this was clearly God seeking His lost child (me) and bringing me back to Him! The bible tells us that He will use whatever means to get our attention in the hopes of repentance and restoration. And it was in that moment...I felt like I just crawled up onto my Daddy's lap and allowed Him to rock me, stroke my hair, and just hold me.
Since then, God has changed me immensely! And during all this He has spoken to me alot regarding my life and circumstances...as I am sure He has you, too!
But after reading your whole thread...there is something I feel led to share with you, Nicola. All of these strongholds and generational curses you spoke of with not only your family but also your H and his family and you yourself are having to battle right now...God has called you for such a time as this. As much as it depends on you, you DO have the divine weapons to demolish these strongholds and curses...not only for you but also for your future generations. When you came up out of that water, Nicola...it was with you, living in you...for you to use. God has given you all that is His...and these are the MOST pwerful and effective weapons we have that WILL demolish the battles we are in. It is the divine power that dwells within us. (2 Corinthians 10:4)...to paraphrase, those weapons are prayer, faith, hope, love, God's Word, and the Holy Spirit. THESE are what will break down the strongholds that have set themselves up against you and your family.
Just like when we have a cold and buy some cold pills...we read the back of the box and the instructions say...For best results, follow the intstructions. Well...that is what we must do too. For BEST reuslts (not mediocre, not wishful thinking but BEST)...follow THE instructions.

Just felt led to share with you and offer you encouragement, Nicola. We are all in this boat together..but we all have the opportunity to step out of the boat in faith and walk on water...knowing that God will not let us sink...but we have to keep our eyes on Him and listen to His voice guiding us...instead of around at the circumstances.

You are doing really good, Nicola. Wanted you to know I am walking with you.

Lifting you up,
Amy

[princess_nic]

Opti/AMD:
I'm familiar with Imago therapy and have actually wanted to try it. There is a therapist who sometimes does workshops for singles in my city, but she hasn't done any in a while. I never believed that stuff either b/c I *thought* I married a man opposite of my father. I consciously chose someone whom I thought was different, yet it seems that is, in fact, the same: puts work before family; ignores the children (or did when he lived here); emotionally distant. I felt for a long time--even after we separated--that I needed to somehow prove myself to "win" his love. It makes sense to me that what I'm really doing is trying to win my father's love and approval.

COG:

I think most families are dysfunctional to one degree or another.

That's why I hate to use that word. I always told myself that there are others worse off than me, that my family wasn't so bad. But it was pretty bad. I have friends who had families much the same (our dads esp came from fathers who were equally messed up), but many who had very loving families.

You grew up in with both parents living together, and how'd that work for ya?

LOL! Yeah, I need to remind myself of that. We were better off financially than we would have been otherwise, but not emotionally. At least, I don't think so, although I could never know.

You'll probably have the tendency to try and control with subtle intimidation like your mom did, but it's good that you recognize that, so you can change that.

I am very aware of that. It is something I am working hard at noticing so I can correct it when I do.

We need to recognize that the people who've hurt us most, are probably those most hurting.

So true. As an adult, I can see that, though it was not possible when I was a child. Wouldn't it be nice if we could know that as children? Instead, our self-concept is formed by people who are unhappy and angry, who love us but don't know how to show us. We end up taking on a view of ourselves shaped by people who are not whole themselves.

Jeff:

When the kids came the focus changed. My W turned to the kids and I grew to resent it.

I think that is what happened with us, too. As H and I grew further apart, I turned more towards the kids for sharing my love and getting emotional fulfillment. Of course, the cycle continued...but we never talked about it.

Your “now I’m not so sure” says so much about you as a person.

Considering that my H was really not a very good husband or father, I think I was more attached to the *idea* of him, rather than him. I could see what was possible, but that's not what was. I still love him, and I would still like to have my family together, but it would have to be within the context of a healthier R between us, which would require that both us be mentally/emotionally healthy.

Like you, he is now giving the children the father they want and need. Since he HAS to spend one day a week (and night) with them, he has to be focused on them for that time.

I also think that a nuclear family is best for the kids but given WE cannot control that it is up to US to make it as good as we can for them.

I believe that as we accept our role in our situation realistically, and not taking all the blame, we grow to accept what has happened and use it for future growth. Your words indicate that is where you are. I am very impressed at your honest assessment here and the fact that you wrote this says to me that your kids will come out just fine.

Thank you, Jeff. This really means a lot to me.

Alison:
Isn't it interesting that you HAD such good role models, yet your M hasn't worked out (so far) either. I always thought that if my parents had had a better M, I would have too. Then again, it seems like your mum and dad are a good match personality-wise. If your dad were less laidback, it probably wouldn't work. It must be hard to look at them and see what you wanted so badly for yourself. Still, you did your best, Alison, and you could still have 45 years with your H...or with someone else (assuming you live that long!).

AH:

One thing that I resisted for a long time, but that is seeming to work, is the use of positive affirmations.

You know, I did this to help with self-esteem and it did work. I resisted also b/c I thought it sounded dumb. I hadn't even thought of doing it in this area, but that is a very good idea. Thank you.

Althea:
My dear, dear friend. You are such a blessing to me and to all of us. Thank you for your beautiful post.

we are going to improve on the old model, we will provide the happy home for our children that our parents did not. But we cannot always control what happens because both husband and wife have to be committed to working through it--even when the going gets tough.

Yes, I took it for granted my H felt the same, but apparently not!! His parents are still in love after almost 50 years, yet he keeps saying his mother would be so much happier if his dad weren't around. Maybe b/c his father was a mean drunk when H was a kid.

I didn't realize that your H had cheated before (oh man it makes me so mad!) because I think unless they work VERY hard to change that behavior, the likelihood of them repeating it is high.... Therapy, therapy, therapy. As you know, my H is a serial monogamist--he ended all his relationships the way he ended ours and even had a one night stand himself before we were married--and why did I think he would change???

You know, he had SO much guilt from that, that I really never thought it would happen again. He was so relieved when I forgave him. He did therapy briefly--a few sessions--and we both thought it was over. Ha! My H also went from girlfriend to girlfriend, never breaking up till another one was waiting in the wings. We were friends for a year before dating, but did actually kiss maybe twice in that time. He had a gf but never brought her to any parties I was at. He always talked about how he wanted to break up with her, but it wasn't the right time. OMG, when I read that now, I just think, could that BE more scripted?! Talk about naive. I also thought that it would be different with me b/c, well, I'm so great, lolol! But that doesn't matter does it? Because it's not about me anyway. This past year has actually been the first time that H has been w/o a woman in his life since he was 16. When he left, I told him he was pathetic b/c he couldn't live w/o a woman. A few weeks later, he broke up with ow. Coincidence? I'd like to think he decided to challenge himself, which is a good thing.

I am glad I met my H because otherwise I would never have had these 2 beautiful children that I love more than anything. I am also grateful that I have not presented the same example for my children that my parents did for me. And so, with the way things were going in my marriage, perhaps it is best that we end it so that both of us (but mostly me) have a chance again at a love and happiness.

I love that...esp the "mostly me" part.

We are wiser now ad can use that wisdom to forge a new life. Don't you feel you have a bit more freedom now? Isn't there more elbow room and space for you to create your own "Nicola" space and family? You no longer have to be judged by a man who did not understand or nurture you

Yes, I am happier. H is very much a cynic, and would often find ways to squelch my joy. I don't know if he did this intentionally or not, but it was soul crushing. My pastor actually said that maybe I never had the chance to be the wife I *could* be in this marriage, and he was right: I was not myself. I am so much calmer and happier now. Even when I am sad, I am happy deep inside. For the last few years, it's been the opposite.

You are a very beautiful and loving woman and I bet there are a lot of suitors out there who, when and if you are ready, will provide you with ample choices for a wonderful husband. You must never give up hope for happiness Nicola, you are far too special and important.

Thank you so much, Althea; you are wonderful.

I am sorry that you are going through a difficult time, too. It is so very hard when our children are hurting. We just want to protect them from everything bad, don't we? You are such a sensitive person, I can only imagine that your children are too. It is a blessing and curse--it makes life harder in a way, but I think we get a lot more out of life, too. We can feel joy that others can't. Unfortunately, we can also feel deeper sadness, but maybe that's not a bad thing, maybe it makes us more human.

Christy:

You are making their childhood different than yours by being the terrific mother you are. You are there for them when they need you. You are involved in their lives. You show them the unconditional love a child deserves. They will never ever forget how you were during this difficult time in all their lives.

Don't ever doubt yourself Nicola ~ You are awesome in so many different ways and your kids know this as well or better than anyone does.

Thank you for this. I am really trying to make this as easy for them as possible. I do better every day, I think. I know it is hard for all of us. Thanks again.

FIB and T2SP:
Thanks for dropping by. It's nice to know people are reading. I follow along with both of you all the time, even if I don't always post.

Much, much love to all of you,

Nicola

[amd]

Maybe we should all get the Mary Engelbreit magnet that says "Let's put the fun back in dysfunctional."

[kikifree]

Considering that my H was really not a very good husband or father, I think I was more attached to the *idea* of him, rather than him. I could see what was possible, but that's not what was. I still love him, and I would still like to have my family together, but it would have to be within the context of a healthier R between us, which would require that both us be mentally/emotionally healthy.

I can really relate..how long have you been in no contact with him?

This is really amazing how much we can all relate.

[Cynthia]

DITTO

[SvenTheRed]

Hi Nic,

Was in the neigborhood lurking. Happy New Year - now what are those 2007 goals/resolutions of your's again?

BTW, I loved your post to someone over in piecing - you sassy little thing...

Are we making this Nicola's year?

Sven

[S.T. _I Made It!]

Nicola, sorry to hijack your thread (it is yours right?), but I haven't heard from MonicaP for a while, and her thread is closed, and I she hasn't started a new one, that I can tell.

I noticed that you posted on her thread a few times, do you know if she's still on?

Thanks, just wanted to check up on her, but I couldn't
Crissy

[I_Still_Love_Him]

Hi Nicola

I have just finished catching up on your thread from the last week. I'm sorry to see that you had a few rough days. It is, I find in our lowest times that God is with us and helps us do some of our best work in looking at our situations and trying to learn and grow from them. We learn so much more about ourselves, our situation, the people in our lives and what we need to do to grow into stronger and better individuals. Just a few things I want to mention:

1. There is no manual on being a perfect parent regardless whether parents stay together. Children growing up in a dysfunctional family that stays together does not guarantee them growing up to be well-adjusted adults. In fact, they will learn to repeat the same behaviours of their parents even if they say they want something different. Children learn by example.

You are a loving and a wonderful mother and you can give your kids so much more attention without having to deal with your H's crap. Your kids will benefit from all that you are learning through this process. They may even actually have a better R with their father because as you said, he is forced to spend time with them alone.

2. As much as I hated the controlling behaviours of my mother and my sister, although I know I am not like them, to the same degree, I have come to realize that I still did demonstrate some of the same behaviours in my M in subtle ways. I know that my sister's controlling behaviour is also a learned behaviour from my mother.

Also, as much as I hated the fighting btwn my parents, I can see that at times, I didn't know how to communicate with my H during a disagreement because I didn't have a good example to learn from. While you and I want something different for our M, it does take a conscious effort to be aware of our behaviours so that we don't repeat them. I wish that someone had told me or given me some books to read before getting married, like Love and Respect or The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands or The Five Love Languages so that I would have been better prepared. Likewise, our H should have been better prepared too.

Do not feel guilty in not giving your children the perfect family unit you wanted. It takes 2 committed people to make a M really work. It is better to have one strong and devoted parent than 2 absent parents who have no time for their children because they have too many issues to deal with.

Yes, I will attest that being a single parent is very hard but how many times has your H actually dealt with the kids or was it usually you?
I do find it interesting that your H's parents are still together yet both your H and SIL are not willing to work on their M. Maybe it's because your H believes his mother would be happier if she wasn't with his father.

3.

When H left, I said to him, "All I ever wanted was to have a happy family." He asked me if I wanted HIM, or just a husband/father. Of course, I said him, but now I'm not so sure.

I do believe in the Imago theory on why we pick our partners. H and I did go to Imago therapy for couples back in 2003 and I honestly believe that had we not stopped going, we probably would not be in the situation today (but then again, I won't ever know). Even my H's psychiatrist had said that my H's issues were not necessarily directed at me but at his mother although I would be blamed for them which is what we also discovered in the Imago counselling. We didn't even finish the 12 session recommended Imago counselling and so we quickly forget everything we learn especially when one partner wants out of the M. In order to have a balance within a M, I believe that we look for partners that are mostly opposite of who we are although there can also be similarities otherwise there would be no growing. IMO, it was your H you wanted. Don't second guess yourself because he couldn't commit.

4. As for the "s" word, it should only ever be a thought but never acted on and I know that you know tht. I know that most of us (including myself) have at one point or another especially going through this experience, thought about it and its knowing when we need to seek professional help. This proves that we are still rational people and still put others before ourselves. It is such a selfish act and would be too easy to do. God has been watching over us and its when we listen to him that we know we will be stronger and better even if the situation doesn't seem to be going the way we want it. You are an amazing person and your kids need you. In fact, I think your H needs you too but he won't admit that right now.

5.

My H also went from girlfriend to girlfriend, never breaking up till another one was waiting in the wings. We were friends for a year before dating, but did actually kiss maybe twice in that time. He had a gf but never brought her to any parties I was at. He always talked about how he wanted to break up with her, but it wasn't the right time. OMG, when I read that now, I just think, could that BE more scripted?! Talk about naive. I also thought that it would be different with me b/c, well, I'm so great, lolol! But that doesn't matter does it? Because it's not about me anyway. This past year has actually been the first time that H has been w/o a woman in his life since he was 16. When he left, I told him he was pathetic b/c he couldn't live w/o a woman. A few weeks later, he broke up with ow. Coincidence? I'd like to think he decided to challenge himself, which is a good thing.

How eerie is this? My H always left a R once their was someone else in the picture too. We too were friends for over a year before we dated although he did flirt with me and kissed me while he was with his previous gf and stopped when I told him that I wasn't comfortable. He never brought his gf to places where I was at either. It was only when he realized that I wasn't going to allow the kissing anymore that he eventually broke it off with his gf. I was the first person he ever asked to marry so I must have been so much better than the rest. Unlike your H now, my H does have OW. So, I'm not sure if she's really much better than me (although how could he have known if he hasn't lived with her) or he's just back at his same old R pattern. Maybe I should give him the same challenge you gave your H. You said your H felt very guilty after the first time he cheated on you yet he did it again. My H knew that I felt insecure at times because my first H had an affair and he said he would NEVER do that to me - HA, he lied or maybe not at the time he said it anyways. How can they feel guilty or say they would never do it and then do? I agree with you in that it is not about us, it's about them. It IS their issue and I think you and I are better off without them right now. Your H needs to deal with this himself. Don't let him drag you down.

6.

My pastor actually said that maybe I never had the chance to be the wife I *could* be in this marriage, and he was right: I was not myself. I am so much calmer and happier now. Even when I am sad, I am happy deep inside. For the last few years, it's been the opposite.

Your pastor is absolutely right. M is hard work and it takes time for 2 people to develop a oneness-type R. You will be the kind of W you want to be one day if not with your H, with someone else when the time is right for Nicola.

Stay strong Nicola. You ARE a wonderful person and mother.

Sorry for the long post. Much love and hugs to you,


Thread #6 - Preparing for a New Year & New Beginning continues