Not: I'm sorry. What can I do. I love you anyway. Don't be angry. Everything's going to be all right.
Do you see how those responses take away from her dignity? They imply that she CAN'T TAKE CARE OF HERSELF. Is that a light bulb over your head?
If you're not responsible for her anger (and you're not) then you don't need to say I'm sorry. And you don't need to fix, because she pointed out that she can fix stuff herself.
This is not to be applied globally.... it doesn't mean you can never do anything for her. But in the sitch where she's trying to pull you into the pit, just acknowledge-- PERIOD. With no other content.
Gotta run... I'll check back later.
I'm so glad you're finding this exciting-- it IS exciting!
So if Rig detaches himself using the guidelines of the differentiation post (e.g., it's okay to let people feel bad without trying to fix them, etc.) and she is STILL angry, she will have a harder time blaming him for her anger. She will probably still try to do it, but it won't stick.
I have to say that in my gut if feels like more of the same when I respond to her jabs ... even when I'm standing up for myself. It feels better when I don't respond to her anger, and let her deal with it herself. Also, she seems to be trying occasionally to deal with things in a productive way, and my getting into it with her seems to perpetuate her belief that I'm the source of her anger.
One of my biggest challenges is to drop the manipulation. I have to stop doing things that I think will make her love me and stay with me. It is a sure backfire. She sees right through it.
he should either take his lumps like a man or really stand up for himself if he believes that he is in the right and in either case demand some delicious cookies too because he deserves them.
Mmmmm. Want some of her delicious cookies....
MJ, you're right about "poor me."
I was with my extended family yesterday, and I saw "poor me" in every single conversation. It's a generational thing ... afraid to go after what we really want ... excusing ourselves by pointing out the disadvantages. I really, really hate it.
Do you see how those responses take away from her dignity? They imply that she CAN'T TAKE CARE OF HERSELF. Is that a light bulb over your head?
It's a lightbulb, but so far only a dim one:
I see from her past responses that she's suffered a loss of dignity in these situations, but I don't REALLY get why.
Oh. Yeah. Now I do. I'm overreacting to her...so I can get a response. Whether I'm being the well-meaning teacher or the guilt-provoking parent, I'm still taking a superior position.
Just acknowledging her anger validates her without making her feel like I think she needs me to solve her problem.
Sheesh.
I've been making her feel like that for a long time, and she's taken it. No wonder I feel like she's "rebelling" against me. No wonder she's lumping me in with her parents and pastors.
Rig, I know your first impulse is to run to her and share that insight, imagining that she'll fall into your arms in gratitude-- don't. Just keep it to yourself for now and LIVE it. You can't do her work for her. But if you do YOUR work, she'll be free to sort hers out unencumbered. I have high hopes for you two.
And bravo for seeing the poor me's in your family. You ARE seeing the light, man!
I used to think this was humility or openness. Now I'm starting to think that my need to bare my soul to her was sometimes deflection of responsibility. Like I was expecting her to help me.
We've been talking about me being enmeshed. I've recognized this kind of codependency for awhile...like when she was mad at me I couldn't move on until we reconciled.
Here's something I haven't mentioned. She's the same way... but with her best friend. I saw her transferring her affection and attention over to her friend (who is also my friend) two or three years ago. Unfortunately, instead of figuring out what was wrong with our relationship, I just got jealous of theirs.
I tried talking about it. But I was defensive, she was defensive, and I backed off.
I really do understand this. I've been in relationships, both romantic ones and same-sex friendships, where I wanted to share/tell everything all the time. It was almost as if an event hadn't really happened to me until I had shared it. It became apparent in some of these R's that on my side was a subtle element of "proving myself"-- proving that I'm okay, that I'm interesting, that I'm a good friend, that the other person's occasionally negative opinion of me was not justified. It's as if I always felt on trial and needed to share my internal life to prove that I was okay. My internal life didn't feel "real" until I had bounced it off someone else.
I don't believe much of this was coming from the other person (except insofar as we attract people whose issues mesh well with our own). And let's face it, our society is full of pressure to share, be part of a couple, blend with someone else... and back to that stupid quote from "Jerry McGuire," "you complete me." We're raised to believe that somehow we're less if we are not meshed with someone.
But go back to Kahlil Gibran's "The Prophet" (the preferred wedding gift for anyone married between 1968 and 1973 I got a copy for my first wedding)...
Quote: But let there be spaces in your togetherness and let the winds of the heavens dance between you. Love one another but make not a bond of love: let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
I'm an only child and have no children. I've always been a loner/outsider, too, and most of my life I've felt diminished because of it. That started to change when I was in my 40's and married my late husband.
That Gibran quote is a good one. I'll see if I can find that.
Her friend is female. She and her husband are our best friends. Our kids have grown up together. My wife and her friend both worked part time and took care of their kids, so they have supported each other for years.
The trouble between my wife and me has put a strain on their relationship I think. The couple is trying hard to keep the door open for me. I've invited them and their kids over to the apartment this weekend.
I think my wife has pulled back from her relationship with her friend some. I would have been happy to see that a year ago, but now it just seems like another loss.
Quote: This is an uphill battle. Oddly, though, I'm loving it. As I'm figuring things out, gaining strength, I'm finding that half of the time I'm charged about meeting the challenge. For me, this is absolutely revolutionary. I also feel more sexual than ever, and I'm starting to dream about my future. MY future.
That is because IMO your wife really did you a huge favor by kicking your azz to the side of the road . Her anger is a sign of her internal struggle between her unhealthy "need to be needed" and her healthy "want to be wanted". That is why you royally p*ss her off when you act "poor me". She feels like you are trying to make her return to her former poor functioning of "needing to be needed" by acting "needy". Her angry accusations that you "always need to be the nice guy" is her only defense against her mushy maternal feelings which make her want to take care of you like a baby.
I think that the biggest favor anyone can do for their partner is to simply do the best they can to care for themselves, even if this means that they have "selfishly" ignore the neediness expressed by their partner. Unfortunately, you are in the situation that your wife is no longer willing to give you a fish and is no longer even willing to teach you how to fish or lend you a pole, so you are going to have to figure out how to survive all on your own. Luckily, you seem to have a positive outlook. So, now all you have to do is get yourself a stiff pole and a good line and dangle some bait on your hook .
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I got a copy for my first wedding)...