Ok, maybe I could be a little more diplomatic, but what I was actually trying to do in part was to fire up his anger. I do believe this anger will come out… sooner or later. The sooner would be out of realization over the hurt Rig suffered from his FOO. The later would be anger over his wife leaving him and splitting up the family, anger that would really be misplaced. If Rigley waits until this latter event occurs, then he and his W will be fighting and blaming each other, when in fact I see them on the same team, but at that point it will be too late and almost irreversible.
So, sorry if I was too harsh Rigley. Try to listen through the delivery and into the message. I’ve been where you are heading and it is not the path to choose. My marriage is only recently improving dramatically because of the long learning process we have gone through but also learning that we each have wounds that cause us to react as we do. We are learning not to react as much toward each other’s frustrations but to understand that there are reasons why we get upset that have less to do with each other and more to do with our upbringing. IMO, this is the value in trying to get your partner to understand that you are really on their side and do not want to D. It is the difference between working together and working against one another.
BTW, have you picked up a copy of Dieda’s book?
I’m just seeing the latest posts by Lil…. One thing I am coming to disagree with is this general idea:
So if Rig detaches himself using the guidelines of the differentiation post (e.g., it's okay to let people feel bad without trying to fix them, etc.) and she is STILL angry, she will have a harder time blaming him for her anger. She will probably still try to do it, but it won't stick.
I understand the logic of this and think it does work… but only with people sufficiently functional to realize what is going on and do the self analysis. With other people, like Rig’s wife, my wife, myself, my mother, and tons others, I do not think this will necessarily work. At some point it might, but that time could be long in coming. The danger is that the other person does not ever see the logic that the only one to blame is him/herself, that instead they just keep the anger behind an ever growing wall of denial. If that wall gets high enough, that person will never be able to tear it down on his/her own.
I no longer think disengagement is the answer. I think engagement is CRITICAL. But it has to be the right kind of engagement, and the person doing this needs to be aware of the issues. There is a certain amount of competency required, but once gained (either through self learning like on this board, or through the use of a competent counselor), the right kind of engagement can make all the difference. Carrot and stick, radical honesty, firm boundaries, no fantasies, a sufficient level of differentiation… all these are required to properly engage. Then, when the both of you have your buttons pushed, you will at least be able to patch things over by talking about the FOO issues, your hidden fears, that made you act as you did. This is what usually triggers the sense of compassion in the other.
Totally disengaging and waiting for the other person to realize their own issues seems to not create this sense of compassion in the other person, which is really what we are trying to do. That seems to be what Rigley wants. He can try to grow out of his self pity mode, but that will always be a part of him. His W has the same thing in her, and it will never completely go away. So learning that this is a tool, an opening to let the other person bond can be used to great advantage. Disengaging will never do this.
The question of HD being an excuse for crude behavior falls away with this point of view. Poor behavior and HD itself are all just different means of crying out for validation, connection, security, comfort. I see these two behaviors as the same. Sure HD can have a biological component to it, but how many times have we seen an HD person suddenly drop off to LD? That makes me think those with a truly chemical bent to HD are actually quite rare. I am not sure that we have even seen one on this board, and that includes CeMar!
