C_L, She says it back. Usually, I would guess 9 times out of 10, I say it as I'm leaving for the day and its just habit. That's the honest answer, I'm not even concious of it, I say it to my kiddies as they leave for the day, as we part ways for any reason so I don't think about it. I just wonder if I should avoid it even then due to DB'ing principles? It always feels uncomfortable to me to not say it at that point due to my kiddies are standing there, they just heard me say it to them and they kind of know my goodbye ritual, LOL. I don't say it other times in keeping with DB'ing. Just when it would be overly obvious that I'm not saying it. I'm not sure if that makes sense.
W left about an hour ago. We had a busy morning, the beginning of a typical Saturday for those with children, ie; games, parties and other functions.
For a brief moment I told her that I still need a time where we can sit down and organize our finances for the year. One of her big complaints about me in the past has been that I work hard, bring in the check and just dump it on her. That I don't help her with managing the finances. My 180 in this area has been to step up and try to take a bigger role in this area. She has avoided every day, time or micro-second I have tried to set aside to work on this. I know she feels really bad about the way things have gone in this area, she blames herself for mismanaging the money. I've told her that this is not entirely her fault, I should have been a better leader in this area..., so let me sit down with you and lets tackle this thing.
It definitely got tense, because I asked why in the world are you so resistant to me doing my part here? She said, what do you want from me? I admit to being ticked. I said, I don't need anything from you, I want to get my finances squared away.
She definitely wanted to fight. I walked away, went downstairs to get the kiddies ready, she followed and said several times, "I'm not stupid, why don't you just be honest and tell me what you are up to?" and she also said, "I know you, you always have a plan, I'm not stupid, I know you are going to do something".
After hearing that about 10 times, trying to ignore it and not say anything in front of the kiddies, (we also have my nephews and my D5s friends over so they were there as well), I said, "listen, when have I ever said anything about you being stupid, this isn't about stupidity, this is about getting our finances in order, these guys deserve a secure future".
She stopped, I left it alone as well and went back to getting kiddies ready to roll for the day.
When it came time for her to take my nephews to meet their dad, (her sis is divorced), she was saying goodbye to everyone, she came to me to kiss goodbye, hugged me and wouldn't let go. I'm careful of holding her when she wants to pull away, so I released her but she kept holding on to me. When she let go, I could see she was crying. I walked her to the door and asked what's up? She said I don't want to get into it, I said okay but can you give me the cliff notes, its tough to see you upset and not know what's up. She said, "you just don't know, I would give anything, do anything to be different, to change the way I feel."
Having learned from the other night when she was upset and it cascaded into a negative R talk, I left it alone, hugged her again and she kissed me. I told her thanks for giving me the abridged version, drive carefully and I'll see you after S14s game.
She left. I think I handled it right. I probably shouldn't have pushed her as little as I did, yet I didn't make a bigger issue or dig deeper into what she was dealing with. I left it alone, once she told me. This is exactly what she was going through Thursday night. I pushed it then and it went negative on me. I vowed that the next opportunity that presents itself like that I will show her that she can have those emotions, and express them to me safely without it turning into a heavy, negative thing. I decided that if given the opportunity again, I would treat it as if a friend were talking to me about the same type thing. (Which involves a good bit of mental muscle, the negative emotions she is expressing are about me, after all). Yet, I would still treat it as if a friend were saying to me, "I wish I could change the way I feel about ______, I just can't, but I would give anything to be different".
If a friend were to say that to me, I would just listen, after all, what is there to say? If my friend knew the answer, being that most of my friends are pretty intelligent I have to assume they have looked and are actively trying to find a way to change. So I would just listen and hang out with them so they wouldn't be alone.
I did the best I could with that approach given the time crunch we had going on. I hope and pray it worked.
Tyler, Has there been any progress in the financial area? This sounds like a charged subject. It sounds like you've offered assistance in managing the money. Have you seen any positives in this area?
She asked what do you want from her? You answered with a general financial goal. In DR, Michelle advises to think about what you want in your M, to think action, and to think small. What would you like your W to do to help with the finances. Then tell her what you want. What does your W want from you regarding the finances? Has she asked you?
I know you've been reading DR. Have you posted your R goals? What are the positives you're looking for at this time? Have you told your W what you want, or is it better to avoid certain subjects? Has your W asked you what she wants? I wonder what her R goals would be? Would she be willing to identify some?
Concerned_Listener
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
C_L,
No real progress yet. Last night and today W became really sick, actually went to the ER last night to get a prescription. So no way to expect progress in this area the last couple of days. Maybe later in the week once she is over this illness?
I posted my goals on the first page of this thread. Short, medium and long term goals.
I answered her with a general financial goal because I could tell she wanted to take it down the R talk road, ie; this is just one more reason we shouldn't try to work this out type thing. I'm trying to stay totally away from any type semblance of R talk at this time, I knew that is where that would go. She will take it there, the last several R type talks have been directed that way by her. The last one she said, why are we even talking about this again? I said, I don't know why YOU are talking about this again, but I have tried to change the subject 3 or 4 times now and you keep coming back to this. How you got here from there is beyond me, I don't need to hear ever again in my life how much someone doesn't want to be with me, and doesn't love me. She didn't know what to say after that and that was the last R type talk.
tyler..I had lost you but now see you are in piecing and seem to be in good hands my friend. Hang in there and keep up the good work.
Thumbs up. If I am not D'd in the near future (my battle continues), drop a note.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
Thanks FIB, I'm praying for you man, it sucks that you are back on the brink. This DB'ing thing is a fickle one. Extreme highs to extreme lows without warning.
The day went pretty well so far. Yesterday I was gone from 8AM until 1230AM, so she had the day to herself. W was/is sick, so its hard to know where she is right now. She is very quiet, when I ask her how she is feeling she says she is hurting from the illness and very tired. Today I left at my normal time. This week is busy, I will be gone from 8AM until 12AM tomorrow and Thursday. Friday I will be gone from 12PM until 12AM. So she should have plenty of space. I will do my best not to call her for any reason other than to talk to the kiddies. I usually call when they get home from school and at bedtime.
At times it's a challenge not to ask her where we are in the R. I'm avoiding it as much as possible, it's tough. Particularly when she is as quiet as she has been the last few days.
This morning she looked up a movie for us to see at 1130AM. That's encouraging. She actually wants to do things with me. We were going to go see it after going to my D9/5 school to help with making copies and such for D9s teacher. As we were leaving my mother called W and asked W to join her and some friends for lunch. W asked me if I was okay with that and I said yes. W said we can see the movie later, and then invited me to go to lunch with W and my mother and company. The ride to lunch was approximately 40 minutes, went okay except she started talking about her sisters divorce, (past), and the prospect of her dating one of my soon to be divorced friends. A lot of what she was saying about him moving on and such was too close for comfort to things she has said about herself and even me to some degree. Lunch went well and my mothers friends were very complimentary about me and said that W and I are a "beautiful couple". I didn't say anything but wanted to say, I want it to stay that way, what God has put together let no man put asunder.
Ride back home went okay, she was uncomfortable due to illness and sleepy from not sleeping well and meds. (all illness related). I suggested she lean the seat back and catch some sleep for the 1/2 hour or so. She said no, she needed to stay alert as the kids would be getting home after we got home and she needed to be there for them. I put my hand on her leg and held her hand some. She didn't seem to recoil and I was thankful for the progress.
On that same note, she did hug me a few times and even came by me to hug or just let me hold her. Babysteps. Kissed a few times but no real zing on them. I'm chalking that up to her not feeling well, trying to put myself in her place in that regard. She seems to be trying despite not feeling well and I'm grateful.
I dropped her at home, went in for a few moments to get some things for work. Headed out for work, we hugged and kissed, I told her I was praying for her to feel better and if she needs anything to please call asap. She stated again that she was just tired and not feeling well. She doesn't want to take the painkillers the doc prescribed. I listened and made sure not to try to 'fix anything', just listen. I told her I understood. The only thing I did say to her about this earlier in the day was that she has often told me to take my meds completely, not stop when I start feeling better and maybe she should just finish out the prescription. She agreed that she did stop taking the PKs because she started feeling better and now illness is coming back on her, so she will go ahead and finish out the prescription. I left it alone. Again trying to treat it as if I was talking to a friend. Which she is.
Anywhooo, we hugged, kissed and I said for her to have a great day. She is definitely feeling run down.
I called normal time to talk to the kiddies after school. I talked to her for a bit and it went well. I realize now the earlier talk about her sisters D and possible dating of my soon-to-be-D friend caused me to go through more of an emotional struggle than I would like at this point. When she got back on the phone after I my last child spoke with me, I wanted to ask her, "the stuff you were saying earlier sounds a lot like things you have been saying about us, do you STILL feel that way? Don't you feel anything different? Any hope? Any desire to try to fix this?" I did avoid it, didn't even come close but man o man it was tough. Sort of caught me off guard. Like when you are running, feeling pretty good and wham! You get hit with a leg cramp that puts you on your butt. Never saw it coming and nothing you can do about it but wait it out. So that's what I did. I kept my mouth shut, let her talk and didn't respond. It still snuck up on me later but I did a great job of keeping my mouth shut again and not going there.
Next call will be at bedtime to say goodnight to my kiddies.
I have to say, I really wish she would call me but I know that just isn't going to happen at this point. It will. She has before. Right now, I don't know, it's somewhere between being gun shy regarding SO many of our calls were negative so she doesn't want to go there and knowing that it's something I'd like so this is her way of giving me a little "up yours" by refusing to call.
That's okay. I almost wish I wouldn't call to talk to the kids. My S14 and D12 have cell phones now, I thought about just calling them at the end of the day to say hey and than asking one of them to let me talk to D9 and D5, thus cutting W completely out of it and avoiding any phone contact with her that she doesn't initiate.
Today I will go with my new approach. I will call the older kids cell phones to catch up with them when they get home from school and at bedtime. I will be able to talk to the younger ones as well, thus eliminating the phone issue..., I think.
I work 8AM to 11PM today. Busy day and a lot to get done. So my mind will be elsewhere, hopefully. This is the Wednesday she goes to see her C. I'm always anxious on these IC days. Her C has proven to not be a fan of me or us. W swears that C is not against us. I asked during one of the last blowouts. I said I wouldn't be so worried about the C, except I know she is no fan of mine. W said that's not true. I said, well I know she is no fan of us. W said that's not true, I said okay, I would be more relaxed about it if I knew YOU were not against us. W said, I'm not against us. At that point I didn't know what to say so I dropped it and we talked about other things.
W is still really sick. I think she is going to have to go back to the doc, just not getting better.
I got home around 1130PM last night and she was up talking on the phone with a friend. She came downstairs and fixed a plate of food for me, then sat and talked while I ate. That's a babystep. She is starting to be comfortable around me. I know that by leaving the R alone, she is not as anxious around me and is more willing to do things with me.
Leaving the R alone is the key. Doing that makes it easy for her to hang out with me, the more time we can spend together stress free, the better connection we can make. That connection/intimacy is going to turn things around.
God help me! I can't stand her C! She had a C session today, I posted about this above. There is always a blowout after her C session. You can set your watch by it. She comes out with the "I have to take care of ME" mantra and anything else is unacceptable.
I called to talk to the kids and W got on the phone. I asked how she is feeling and such. She said okay, I could tell something was up. Then she started to say something but stopped. I asked her what was on her mind and she just wouldn't come out with it. Finally I said, you know sometimes the uncertainty drives me batty. She asked what I mean. I told her that one of my friends just got served with D papers and it totally caught him off guard. That is the uncertainty I'm dealing with right now. So I asked, (shouldn't have I know), am I going to get served? She said no, but....
I asked what do you mean but? She then said she hadn't even talked to an attorney yet, but was thinking about it.
What the heck? A few good days and then talk to an attorney? Where does this come from?
She said she just can't trust me with her. She doesn't want to. Trust is broken.
I didn't know what to say. I just let her talk. I asked if she had a timeline, do you know when you are going to talk to the attorney and what is it going to cost? She has no idea.
Then she said, "I don't know, I'm just confused." (I might have made a mistake here), I said, listen we've been together for 19 years, that's a long time, just give me 18 months to prove myself, that things are different, the changes are permanent and you can trust me. She didn't answer and we ended the phone call.
This just hard, there is no other way to describe it.
She called back an hour later and said she is getting more sick and might return to the emergency room tonight after the kids are in bed. I asked her to wait for me or I can leave work early to take her. I asked her to please let me help her tonight. She seemed receptive. This is such a challenge. Highs then lows, followed by highs then lows.
God I want to do what is right, yet how can I when she is set on the D?
