180+180 = 360

[ANS]

Lisa,

From the way W behaves, she does not want more love, passion or partnership. I don’t believe she is content either. Am I too trusty and familiar? Perhaps that’s it. She wants a variety of friends, and since MF is out of the picture, she doesn’t have that anymore. I don’t think she wants me to suffer either. In fact, I have told her nothing of my suffering – at least not for several months – maybe even years.

I can’t demand that she spend time alone with me, and I certainly can’t tell her that our marriage needs it. Her reaction would be exactly as Glo posted.

I think there may be an element of fear of abandonment in my W’s thoughts. She’s said on more than one occasion that she’s gained the strength to be able to carry on without me if something ever happened to me. If there were some way I could make her see that she doesn’t have to abandon me first…

But that’s pure speculation. I don’t know for sure if this is part of it, and even if I did, there’s nothing I can do about it.

Glo,

She apparently is tired and feels so many demands that she can't handle yours on top of everything.

Why do you need to express this all the time? Obviously, the results are BAD. I don't like the undercurrent I'm hearing here, Andy.

At the risk of sounding defensive, I do not express this all the time. In fact the only expression of my frustration is the occasional sleepless night. I explain it away as work related stress, and also family related stress. I have acknowledged to her that I understand her stress, and in no way do I belittle it. When I mentioned (on my thread and with tongue firmly planted in cheek) ALL the 'time' she has when they are in school, I was not implying that she didn’t deserve it.

I’ll be blunt too, Glo.

It's not really for you to decide how much she can handle. The woman has several kids, including a special needs kid, and you seem to have this idea that she gets to loll around at home while they are in school.

I have several kids too. Including a special needs kid. I don’t loll around the office while they are in school, and I don’t loll around in the evening when they come back from school.

If there’s something I resent, it’s the implication that I’m some kind of male chauvenist couch potato.

Having said that, I also acknowledge the fact that W has done the brunt of the kid stuff over the past 16 years. I have nothing but admiration for this, and I’ve told her so on more occasions than I can remember.

I also recall W complaining that she got no respect. That was wake-up call for me that my respect for her wasn’t being communicated. One of the nicest things I ever heard my W say was, “At least papa respects me.”

I’ve always done whatever she asks of me. What I’ve come to realize (duh!) is that I have to actively search for things that need to be done. So I feed the kids, do the dishes, search for doggie-doo, and sit down and try to think of anything else that needs to be done when I get home from work.

I don’t expect her to jump for joy at this, and I don’t expect her to understand the additional stress that this puts me under or show me any respect for it. I hope she does respect me, but if it was so hard for me to make her feel respected, I can hardly expect her to go out of her way to make me feel respected.

You feel resentful and it's coming through LOUD AND CLEAR. You're complaining because you work all day and then have to help with the dishes, etc. And then you're complaining that you don't get the loving attention that you (naturally) want from your wife.

She hears this as yet another demand on her, instead of something that replenishes the both of you. And since the resentment is coming through cyberland, I'm certain it comes through in real life.

Instead of focusing on how much she's not appreciating you, you need to MODEL the appreciation you crave. It may sound "unfair" and backwards, but we're ALL in the same boat here! We all had to be the ones who modeled positive change to bring our erring spouses back.

I hope you’re wrong, Glo. Firstly because I don’t feel resentful. It may come across that way, but my feelings are more about frustration. Frustration because I’m doing my best to be on the same team. I want to be part of the parenting team and the houseworking team. I want to share the frustrations so as to make things easier for her. I’d like to be able to express my frustration but I can’t. If I were to do so, W would react the same way you do. That I feel my frustrations are more important than hers. So while she can vent out loud, I’m forced to do it here.

Your special needs child may be tipping the balance here. Your image of him clinging to you "like a dirty shirt" was particularly disturbing.

Believe me when I tell you that I don’t like it either. Also that I don’t always feel that way. It’s just that sometimes I need a little space too. And going to work doesn’t do it. I get frustrated sometimes. Other times, I hug him, wrestle and box with him.

You need to find some OTHER way of replenishing your spirit without making demands on your wife and feeding your resentment. Because the way you're headed now it sounds to me as if you are getting ready to justify leaving your wife with those kids!

I’ll never do that, Glo. Chalk it up to blowing off steam. But I ain’t goin’ nowhere.

The fact that your W did call and invite you out shows she does hear you. If you then complain about all the effort it took to get her to do this, maybe you should look at your own expectations.


I hope you can hear this in the spirit it's offered. It is easier for those of us with older kids to concentrate on reconciliation. But you are adding a burden to your W by viewing the kids as competition. I don't say you shouldn't VENT here---you should.

But from what I'm hearing you are making noises about not going through this anymore, and it is my belief that leaving your family would cause *more* hurt and damage. Do the impossible and focus on the good, and I believe your efforts will be noticed and bring you what you desire!

You’re right, Glo. She does hear me, and I should be grateful for that.

And I do take what you said in the spirit of helpfulness. Thank you.

The “noises” I’m making are just frustrated grunts. I focus on the positive more than I let on. But when I talk about not going through this anymore, I’m thinking more in terms of just giving up hope that things’ll get better.

Im sure that your wife does feel the resentment you hold over the way that things are now. I know that you keep saying that you are "accepting" the situation at hand, I'm not convinced that you truly have.

I don’t think I’ve said that I’m accepting the sit. If I said that, then I’ve misspoken. What I’m trying to say is that I’m trying to accept it.

it's interesting that so many people can read the same things and get different senses of it. i never felt from reading andy's thread that he was resentful towards his wife. i get the sense that you (andy) love your wife with all your heart, do everything you can think of and are capable of to do your share and want the fun and intimacy back in your relationship. i get the feeling you are frustrated with your w's lack of enthusiasm and affection. you both have such full plates. you are trying to make the marriage a priority, your w just can't right now.

I guess that pretty much sums up the way I feel.

Andy,

Everyday, pick out one thing to "appreciate out loud" to your wife.

Don't assume that she knows you appreciate the things she does, tell her.

Don't take for granted the things that she does, "expecting" her to do this things.

Don't say that you've already tried this and it didn't work, or that you know it's not going to work.

OK.