I see what you’re saying, KAW. But at the risk of sounding like a newbie, how do you define “a period of time”? You said that it took three months for your W to spend time with you and D regularly, and another ½ year until she admitted enjoying it.
I hate to keep saying it, but two years after starting to “give her space”, my W still won’t join me – whether I be alone, with someone else, or with the kids.
Quoting KAW: My point here Andy, is at first she may take it as an oppurtunity to go her own way, but if you provide a period of time for a lighter, upbeat family environment different from the daily grind, then in time she will be drawn towards it as a safe haven in which she could enjoy time with her family (including you) and if you are the source of enjoyable family time, then she may be drawn to you as well.
You also have to remember that my W is a stay-at-home mom. Drawn towards a safe haven? I don’t think so.
I do understand what you’re saying, though, and perhaps over the next decade or so, it might work for me. I do try to enjoy time with my kids, and if watching TV counts, W will stay in the room.
“Having fun” is an euphemism if you’re talking about S#2, though. I hate to say it, but it’s rare that W or I have fun with him. I love him to death, but he’s just not normally a fun person. We love him to pieces, but whenever he’s around, our house can never be a safe haven.
I have to appologize for being so whiney the last coupla days. I realize that my posts have been a downer and downright argumentative.
But I think that at this point, there's nothing new I can really do. It's frustrating, but unless W ever decides that she wants to be closer to me, there's nothing I can do to draw her in.
Guess I should just shaddup now.
Thanks for all your suggestions and kind words, though. I really do appreciate it.
Andy I feel the lonliness in your words. It's a terrible place to be and hard to get out of. I too am feeling so lonely. I don;t know how to draw Adrian closer tome. It seems no matter what I try dosen't work, and I am left wondering is this as good as it gets? Sounds like thats pretty much where you are too. I did not see him all day and he came home for 5 minutes to get some tools and off to help a friend put in a sink, so I am home alone again. I was going to go with him, but the wife was sick with the flu and did not feel like having company. COuld he have said lets make it another night? Yes, he could have. Did he? No, he didn't. I feel like I'm always last and that he does not take my feelings into consideration. IF he would have just said do you want me to make it another night it would have meant the world to me, but he does not work that way. Its always everybody elses needs first. If I say anything I end up sounding selfish, so I keep quiet and stay lonely. I guess I should be thinkful at least he's not going out with the guys. He never does that thank goodness. It's sad when this BB is the only company you have. At least we have it. I can see how you feeel defeated and at a loss as how to change your sitch. It would take her cooperation and DESIRE to change the way things are. People keep saying this will get better. How long do we wait. I want to spend time with my H. He does not seem to care if he spends time with me right now. All I can do is carry on and put my best foot foreward. IT gets real hard sometimes though. SOrry, I'm not much help to you tonight as I am feeling the same way-LONELY. Rachael
Hey Andy...not sure I can help much, going through something quite similar...only I have only invested 8 months...but I am asking myself how long I can hold on? There are positive signs, but just not enough and not big enough to warrant my efforts and pain and sadness and loneliness. I feel like I should cut my losses here and rebuild a new life for myself.
Sorry, I think I may be downing everybody even more.
The "period of time" I was referring to was the time of day that can be set aside (for lack of a better phrase) for "Quality time" as it could be look foward to on a regular basis by you and your kids. This is time in which involves interaction intended to be fun between you and your kids rather than more of the daily routine such as chueffering them to their extraciurcular activities, homework, chores, etc... (for example, as I had mentioned we have scheduled Wednesday evenings to play a game. During the summer, we took our activity outdoors such as tossing a frisbee for a ½ hour or flying a kite.) I don't remember you mentioning the age of your children so it may be more difficult to find a common interest. Do they know how to play Bridge or Pinocle. How I wish I get a foursome together.
I just threw that out there because it may accomplish several different results. - I get the impression that they demand alot of their mom's attention when she is home. As the kids focus on the scheduled activity, it will take their attention off your W and allow your W a reprieve at home if she wishes. - It could turn into something that the children will look foward to doing, bringing you and your kids closer together. - For an hour or so, it has the potential of creating a climate where everyone involved is living in the moment. The daily stresses are pushed aside. A climate that is lighter, more uplifting, more enjoyable. The sounds of children laughing, having fun has a very powerful draw. This what I meant by the term "safe haven" (and probably not the correct term to apply.) To illustrate what I'm trying to say ... Through the spring/summer season, my D & I tossed the frisbee once a week in the yard. Not once during the entire season did my W come out when we were out there . The last time (couple of weeks ago), my W came out and sat on the porch and watched.
I do understand how S2 will make accomplishing this more difficult, if at all possible, but again I threw this out there to see if you might be able to adapt the concept for you and your children's benefit and if your W choses to partake, then all the better.
Years ago when my kids were much younger I was pretty much in the same place your W is right now. I stayed at home with my kids (3 boys) and ran a business from home also. At one point I even managed going to school for a while. I am a person who needs ALONE time. I wasn't getting any. And, no, I really didn't want time alone with my H. I really wanted to be alone.
It took a few years for my H to understand that I needed a bit of time by myself. Finally, it was arranged that on Saturday mornings I'd take off for a couple of hours -- get a cup of coffee and window shop, usually. At that stage of our M we rarely had "couple time" -- much to my H's great dissatisfaction. At that point I really didn't care that he was unhappy about our lack of togetherness. You see, he worked out of town a lot, so I resented the fact that he was going out to dinner, wandering around malls in the evening, reading a book uninterrupted, etc. all while I was carrying the full burden at home. Then when it came for the weekend and he wanted "us" to be alone together, he expected me to find the babysitter and make all the arrangments. No thanks. I just wanted to enjoy some of the same things he was experiencing -- being alone.
Honestly, Andy, it took many, many years for me to get to the point of wanting to be a couple with my H again. Ironically, I had just reached that stage as he was deciding to engage in a PA.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is to not give up hope for the future. I believe there will come a time in your W's life where she will realize what she's missing out on and she will want to reconnect with you.
You’re right about the loneliness. In my work, I sit at a cubicle and work on a computer. My contact with coworkers and clients is via email and a few phone calls. For awhile, I was traveling to far off exotic places like Hicksville TN, or Hooterville IN. Would work my day – primarily alone and then go to my hotel room.
So now, when I get home, W is out. I don’t know when she’ll return, but I do know that the kids will be all over her, and there’s no place for me. And like you, if I want a slice of her time, I come off as selfish.
The only answer is to embrace being alone, Rachael. It’s not the same thing as giving up on togetherness, but you have to learn to enjoy your own company, and when the opportunity for time together arises, enjoy that to the max.
Quoting rmccord: COuld he have said lets make it another night? Yes, he could have. Did he? No, he didn't. I feel like I'm always last and that he does not take my feelings into consideration. IF he would have just said do you want me to make it another night it would have meant the world to me
This is a big thing for me, too. But, it comes under the heading of “don’t take it personally.” Just because he didn’t say it, doesn’t mean that he didn’t think it, Rachael. I suspect that in his mind, there’ll always be another night, so it went without saying.
Quoting ANS: Lately, W has been turning the other cheek when I kiss her. Doesn't feel very good.
But the last few days, she's actually taking me by the shoulder when I kiss her, so I'm feeling a little better.
Her reply to ILY has been a grunt at best. Well, she just called me at work to see if I could take d#1 to yoga (yes... yet another thing). Before hanging up, I said ILY, and she replied, "me too."
It really doesn't take much to make me happy sometimes.
Ooooooops. Did I say make me happy? No.No.No!!!!! W can't make me happy!!! Only I can do that!
Yesterday, it was back to the grunt.
Last night there were (as tree would say), fireworks.
Today I feel fine. I can hardly wait for next month!
Y’know, Rachael, it’s draining that I always have to be the initiator, and that her response is usually an unenthusiastic no. But sometimes, she embellishes her response with, “Sorry honey. Not tonight.” And that’s almost as good as, “We’ll see.” (which is as close as I ever get to “yes”)
Just a small change in the way she says things means so much to me. But in her mind, the message is the same.
I guess what I’m trying to say, Rachael, is that Adrian’s way of communicating with you doesn’t do anything to make you feel wanted or loved. But his actions and words are not an accurate barometer of his feelings towards you, or of his desire to make you happy.
Steph,
All I can say is that you can hold on as long as you want to. It’s your decision. But I think you should hang in there. Slowlee Slowlee… Baby steps… It all sounds cliché after awhile, but your R went downhill slowlee slowlee, so there won’t be a flash of thunder to announce the restoration of your M. It’s just gonna ease on down the road.
KAW,
You have a knack of posting really great stuff at a time when I’m completely unreceptive to it. I often have to reread your posts when I’m feeling a little more solution oriented. Keep throwing it out there.
My kids are a little older. Girls are 16 and 14. Boys are 12 and almost 9. They’re at the point where it’s virtually impossible to get everyone interested in the same thing at the same time. But I’ll certainly keep an eye open for any opportunity that may present itself. Who knows?
The kite thing sound fun.
And my good friend Mattie,
Thanks for sharing that with me. I see a lot of what my W is going through in what you were experiencing. And I understand that too. I really do. It makes things easier for me. It makes things easier to not take it personally when she wants to be alone.
I also understand that when she wants to be with other people such as MF whilst excluding me, it’s only because she needs the variety of adult companionship that she lacked for so many years.
All of our children are in school now. W has all day to herself. It seems like now that she cannot socialize with MF, she’s relying on herself.
Quoting matilda: No thanks. I just wanted to enjoy some of the same things he was experiencing -- being alone.
Yeah. I guess she’s doing that too. And it’s frustrating for her that I don’t seem to be able to “enjoy” such a wonderful thing like being alone. I don’t know if she doesn’t care about how I feel, but she most certainly doesn’t understand.
Quoting matilda: Honestly, Andy, it took many, many years for me to get to the point of wanting to be a couple with my H again. Ironically, I had just reached that stage as he was deciding to engage in a PA.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is to not give up hope for the future. I believe there will come a time in your W's life where she will realize what she's missing out on and she will want to reconnect with you.
I pray you will wait for her, Andy.
I haven’t given up hope, Mattie. I don’t think I ever will. I can’t.
I take some comfort from your story. Lily’s too. It shows me that it is possible for things to turn around. But I’ve also read about women who never get the feelings back. I’ve read that loss of libido can be permanent after menopause, and I’ve known women who can’t stand to be in the same room with their H’s.
It is possible but not certain.
But I will wait for her, Mattie. If I have to wait a lifetime, I’ll wait.
I wish I could talk to your W. I think I was her a few years back. I believe I could help her to understand some of what she is feeling and going through.
I held a lot of resentment over the years. I always felt my H just wanted sex, just wanted a release, and didn't really care about my feelings or what I wanted and needed. I thought the issue of "not getting enough" just made him angry at me, which in turn made me angry at him. I was very wrong about that. But in my own defense, my H did not make that clear to me until it was apparently too late.
What I've come to understand is how much my "rejection" of my H really, really hurt him. Understand, that I did not see my lack of desire as rejecting him. I did not see the pain that I was causing him. And, he did not tell me these things. Apparently, if I really loved him I would just know all that!! Yep, that's how he felt about it. So, because I'm not a mind reader and didn't see how much I was hurting him, he obviously felt that I didn't love him. Apparently, he was able to live like that for many years until he started thinking that maybe someone else "could read his mind" and "know" everything about him, and he'd find love with someone else. I guess what he didn't reckon on that just because he "thought" I didn't love him, that didn't change the fact that he still loved me. Being with another woman didn't make him feel better -- totally the opposite.
Well, I digress. But my intention is to give you some hope. There was a time when I couldn't stand being around my H. There was a time when I didn't want his affection (in my mind that only meant he wanted sex!!) There was a time when I just wanted to be alone. Those times are all behind me now. And, I want you to understand, Andy, that my change in attitude had nothing to do with the PA or the EA. I was well on the way to making changes long before I ever found out about that. So you certainly don't need to go to the extremes that my H did to get your W's attention. But I wonder if perhaps a reall heart-to-heart isn't in order sometime in the near future. She isn't a mind reader, Andy. Perhaps she doesn't know how much you're hurting.
I don’t know to what extent W knows I’m hurting. I haven’t left it up to mind reading, though. But whenever I’ve told her of my feelings, it was received as criticism of her, and she got defensive.
On various occasions, she’s told me that she has no libido, and that if we never make love again, she wouldn’t miss it. She’s told me that it doesn’t matter if it’s me, Brad Pitt, or the Pope, it doesn’t make any difference. It’s gone. When I told her what a wonderful bonding experience I thought love making was, her response was, “It’s been a long time since I’ve felt that.”
Much later, as things got worse (in that department), W broached the subject again to tell me that, “You’ve always put way too much importance on sex.”
So you see, Mattie. She’s not reading my mind at all. She can’t put herself into my shoes. From her perspective, it’s not important, and I have to grow up and understand that.
If she does know how much I’m hurting, she simply feels it’s my problem.
Having said that, I also understand that her feelings change over time and that she may be more sympathetic. But I can’t initiate another heart-to-heart. They’ve hurt me worse than the rejection.
andy, i think that sex is over rated sometimes. but it is a wonderful way to bond with your spouse. it can be so many things to so many people. and it is hard to talk about. my h thinks our sex life is better than ever. i think it is in many ways the worst it has been. at least as far as emotionally. but my h doesn't or shall i say hasn't felt sex is about emotional connection. it has been about passion and freedom for him. we are not lacking in the physical arena, but i feel emotionally disconnected from him. he feels very connected to me.
strange how 2 people in the same activity can have 2 different perceptions and feelings.
