good questions. First, heck yes I'll leave in the winter if I need to, which I did each winter while we lived there. When we lived there, H went "native" on me and had to hunt/fish/fly a plane and buy pricey toys and oh, btw, I had an infant with me all day in a place where I knew no one, and H was just a jerk. It is when it all started and that is psychologically an issue for me; I associate our R problems with going there I think. Not totally rational, I agree. Yes it's a "concession" of sorts. But really what else can he do, tie me up and keep me there all the time? I also have some legal considerations that might be fixable, if H agrees to them. The main one is that if we ended up getting a D, up there, I'd have to stay there to share joint custody, until d9 is 18. NOT a good thing for me.
I despise labels or using a diagnosis as an excuse. But the dark winters really affected me, and so did the remoteness of it all. Hard to get to or leave...so so far away from family and warm sunshine. I can have snow here, in 3 hours drive, or the beachy sunshine in 20 minutes. I LOVE where I live now, for the first time in 25 years I live in a Place that I WANTED to live, with H's agreement. H worked at Cedars Sinai, fyi, so I couldn't grasp why that wasn't enough. Jeez.
I am conflicted (really???). On one hand, I resent the hell out of him for putting me in a position where my choices are as follows: 1) Join H in Alaska and bring d9 with me. MEANS-- d9 leaves her friends, school, home and neighborhood and she will NOT be happy about that. I've moved kids before, and it gets harder all the time. Plus, THIS move would be different b/c d9 will not have ANY siblings with her to buffer the "newness". The other times we moved, they always had a brother and or a sister to come home to, and play with and be comforted with. ALSO, d17 is going to a college nearby where we NOW live....she could come visit weekends, or any night something bothered her. At the same time D17 would be leaving the nest for the first time, maybe "wobbling" a bit, I'd be yanking the nest out from under her. We talk in depth every day, they both sleep in my bed at night, eventually. Point is...we are very close. Moving there will separate them, in a big way.
2) OR, I can stay here and ......get a divorce? Have a "commuter" marriage? This sucks big time, except a little. Meaning, we have adjusted to life without H and as long as the bills are paid, I am doing alright here without him. Not great and I know a 2 parent home is better. But I'm not terrified of living alone...but H will hold me responsible for ending the M. He says he has done his share by not divorcing me...wth?? Not sure what that meant and he only says it when he feels defensive...
And VC, there is that one tiny other thing....THE obstacle. I pray this isn't false pride, and I mean that. But since H did this whole 2 year deal in such a loser way, ignoring my desires, secretly pursuing it and NEVER really giving another place a chance----How can I go up there without change in him? I'd be an idiot wouldn't I? What about boundaries? My mc is pro-M but he feels that going up there now, without change in H AND how I feel about the place, is a set up for failure. I agree with that. Self resepect and the line between that and false pride, are blurring. If we had acted as we used to, (BA= before Alaska) we'd have sat down and listed the pros and cons of each location. Did that before. I saw NO research on H's part about other areas, or jobs, and he gave me no real reason for wanting Alaska except weird, vague MLC comments like "there's a gold rush up there and I don't want to miss it" and "I just really want to live there as much as possible" and, my favorite argument of H's b/c he really thinks it's strong, is "I've wanted this for a long time".....ergo, he should have it by now, even if it's wrong or selfish.....I recall thinking he sounded crazy, and literally asked him to get a full neuro work up, thought maybe he had a brain tumor. In the past, he admitted periodically that he was being selfish, or had "behaved badly". No more of that talk. IF he had just talked to me, let me in, I'd likely have listened to him. Last January I lay in his arms and said, "If you want my buy in on something, you have to let me in on the matter and get my input. These are joint decisions" (mind you, he had already gone to fellowship at this point, but that had an end date, UNLIKE Alaska) and H said to my face, "That sounds reasonable, don't worry..." Two weeks later he said he was working on taxes and could not come home that weekend, but instead went up there. Again. Ouch!!!
He also accepted their offer without my input! In fact, in each instance I had to withdraw the info from him as he never once volunteered it. He disrespected me and our M by doing what he did, and I KNOW he feels that since his financial numbers (making a gazillion dollars) MAY be correct/accurate, H thinks what he did was RIGHT....who cares? I do. Why? B/C if he thinks it's okay, who is to say he won't pick up and go next time he gets the itch, or a "great opportunity" and then, belatedly, hope we join him....it will mean that H can do nearly anything he wants, for a long time, without the M ending. He does miss us a lot and says he is "lonely all the time" which I believe. So, I don't think I can say he has not faced any consequences. But all H does is go to a job he loves, in a place he loves. Goes to bed wheneveer he wants, watches and eats and ya da ya da whatever single people without children do....yeah, sometimes I'm jealous b/c I never thought I'd be a single parent.
Way back when we were debating this, or so I thought, H said more than once that he would "PREFER" we join him there.....as you can imagine, that almost swept me off my feet....I LOVE the idea of moving to hell b/c my selfish H would "prefer" it.....YES, his tune has changed lately. That is a big deal but when I say amnesia, saying "prefer" is something he'll either forget ever saying, or want to ignore. Why is it some men really seem to do the ostrich deal and put their heads in the sand when a real problem is happening? It cannot get better without them doing something, but my H avoids issues and conflicts like the plague. Guess what? That makes MORE CONFLICT, in the end. It hurts me much more that he lied, at least 3 times, and shut me out of huge, high impact choices H made alone, over a period of many months.... My mother in law said H lied b/c he was afraid of my reaction.......to which all I could say was "well......duh..." Who lies b/c they're eager to get a reaction? He also said he didn't want to upset me.....I LOVE IT WHEN A LIE BECOMES NOBLE, gosh thanks for that favor!
Well, I've vented a lot, as you can see. And I thank you for that. Do I love the guy? Yes. And H tells me he loves me/our family/values us and will "prove it when we get up there" and he does say things I need to hear. Can't help but wonder why he can only do this if I move up there. But I don't want to be ungrateful for what I am hearing from him. Things I need to hear. But he is not a patient man...wants forgiveness pretty fast with maybe one apology, and zero time to re-build trust, it SEEMS.....could be off on that. But we have Lots of history and accomplishments, and wonderful children.
I honestly do not know what is best for d9, or d17 or S20. I do think the M matters to kids even when they're older....intact family, or weak scaredy cat Mama?...you decide. Seriously, God does want us to be happy, correct? Or holy? does "holy" mean, unhappy but getting into heaven?
Speaking of possible divine intervention---BTW, weirdly, I got a job offer there, so far without an actual specific salary mentioned....might be tempting. WHY is that happening? Is it a sign? Of course, since I've seen nothing in writing, it might be a non-issue. Ever since it got mentioned, H has stopped talking about moving elsewhere WITH me and d9. But even if the job up there somehow worked, What about starting a demanding job in a new place when d9 starts 5th grade there? Somehow, d9 gets the short end of the stick. BTW ALSO, the job up there is the type I'd love on my resume BUT is NOT my Dream job. (It's for the CEO job, which I won't be offered elsewhere, realistically. There is a shallow pool of educated talent there, with relevant experience that I do have, fwiw) MY dream job? I love to perform, and write and direct, which I do here. It does NOT pay well. But I'm happy. And productive. I write screenplays, comedy pieces, etc. HERE IN LA....wth am I going to do up there? The only DREAM job I can imagine there is MAYBE opening up a theater there, God knows they need one. OR maybe teaching drama, but here I am AGAIN trying to fit my needs into H's choices--THE STORY OF OUR M. Hence me joining the Army although I owed them nothing for school since I put myself thru college and law school....but H owed for med school. Guess who gets sent to flippin' Kuwait??? ME!!!! Hello??? wth????
WOW, I"ve vented some more VC. I feel less crazy now. So, thanks for listening. I'd love to talk with you some time btw, b/c I just got off of Rocco's thread and have no idea what he was offended by. Threads locked and I don't know how to find the post wherein he explains being offended. ANYWAY, thanks again, I welcome your input. j-
j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Dear I-, Just bought a book called "Wild at Heart" by John Eldredge. just began the book, but it says things along the lines of men needing to be a hero in an adventure and wanting a beauty to join him after he rescues her, and that women want to be swept away, rescued, knowing we are the "beauty". Do I agree with all of it? Who knows? But it IS interesting to read, to see another view point. And I know there is a least some truth to the human condition. thanks, j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Well, between you and me and the fence post, I think Rocco does almost enjoy his victimization, it means he doesn't really have to progress much, because his W's family won't apologize, he gets to remain a victim. so, when you gave it to him pretty tough, I think he started to feel sorry for himself again. I feel bad for him, but he really is rather scared of change of any kind, so he would rather keep things the way they are, rather than risk shaking things up.
You know you said you write screenplays, comedy pieces, etc, but there in LA. Can this not keep you busy in Alaska, and you fly back to LA whenever necessary? Have you and your daughters gone more than just once to check it out up there? What about the school your 9yr old would go to? I mean, it doesn't sound all bad to me, really. I know about the lack of sunshine causing you to feel sad in the winter, but get some SAD lights, and use your frequent flyer miles, to get back into the real sunshine now and then. I don't know the answer to your dilemna, because I do understand your not wanting to be stuck up there if you end up D. L
First, sometimes I have trouble answering Rocco. Seems really repetitive, but I need to work on my patience, I guess.
Moving up there??? Don't know. Maybe so. Let's see how a job search goes, and how D9 really feels. So far she has not refused, but I saw the look of hurt on d17's face when d9 just mentioned going up there "for 2 or 3 years". I said, to d9, hypothetically that we'd leave if we BOTH didn't like it then. Supposedly H will leave too, but who knows about that?
VC, I have moved a great deal in the M, as a military member and wife. So part of me is just tired of that. But all in all, by far, Fairbanks was the hardest, darkest, most UNfriendly place I've been. When I did comedy the front row usually started out with their arms crossed as if they were expecting a stripper....????
Anchorage is more "civilized" and beautiful. But there are only 300,000 people there total, which makes it a small city and it is IT.....until you fly down to Seattle -5+ hours flying. The other "cities" in Alaska are several times smaller, so Anchorage is all the "city" you'll get. It IS beautiful, but at this time of year it has just over 5 hours of daylight. 10:15 to about 3:30, which means d9 would be in the dark before and after school....it is harder than you realize and the "SAD" lights were, ummm, useless as far as we could tell. The kids and I stared at them every morning and evening and MAYBE it helped. Sure didn't notice and it just feels like a heavy dark blanket that sort of slows you down, makes you hungry, easily tired, and a bit melancholy. Not serious clinically depressed but definitely lowered energy and less happy and less upbeat. Lots of fear about going thru that again.
So that's the down side. But d9 was happier about the idea of "daddy would be living with us?" than I expected and so that was moving. It is beautiful and a part of the life style there is "adventurous". I like the outdoors well enough and the idea of "catching" my food, or H doing so, has a certain primordial appeal.....Plus the whole looks thing (where if you are a "7" in looks in a normal place, you move up at least 2 notches moving up there, so you can be a 9 or 10 up there, especially since I have all my teeth, and they're white, and I shave my legs......um just kidding....or am I??) Then, there are the POSSIBLE career advantages, but that's still unknown. Even though there is a shallow talent pool, there are also a lot fewer jobs. Plus they are not the creative ones I do here. As far as flying into LA to market myself, just so you know, it is unrealistic. The entertainment industry is largely reliant on personal relationships and contacts. Unless you are well established with a hit show, best selling novel/screenplay etc, no one will have time to meet with someone from out of town, who cannot possibly give them any additional "connections" and work. People HERE like it if you are different as there is NO desire for conformity....I LOVE that I don't get boxed in to "being a Lawyer" or a "Mother" although come to think of it, I've always played a mom or an executive in the films I've done....hmmmm. Maybe if I can get a literary agent, but they require 3 complete screenplays to read, before they'll even meet you. So, for me to have worked at the Improv, the Comedy Store, and other places is a real accomplishment and took a lot of work that scares me, compared to being a lawyer. I know it's too really different worlds, but I love it. Down here there are groups that form to support each other in these creative endeavors. Up there, well, I could start one. And I have thought of actually opening a theater there, when I get gutsy...or crazy.
Thanks for listening. I am considering going up there, or at least being open to it. But legal stuff has to be okay. Don't want to be stuck there "sharing" custody if H goes nuts on me, or if I can't handle it and he breaks his word, which would = me staying there until D9 is 18 y/o which would SUCK big time...I THINK H might sign something that could reassure me, but I haven't asked him yet. Also, the support amounts are much better here than up there. Much better here.....Anyhow, How are YOU doing? and thanks for posting here, btw. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
In reading your situation, I found a few similarities to my own, so let me come at you from the other side a little. My W followed me into the Air Force, and through 4 moves, and finally here to AZ. She willingly moved around and in fact committed to follow me while I was in the military. Once we settled here in AZ was when I first ran into a problem similar to what you describe. When I left one job and took another (same location and pay, just more percieved financial risk in her eyes), she really showed the lengths she would go to to have control. She fought my job switch for 5 years, constantly berating me, withholding affection, etc, after I did it when she disagreed that I should. My new job involved an uptick in travel (I travel probably 15-20% of work days), and about the same hours (I work 45-50 hrs per week, no weekends). I can tell you I thought her attitude was completely out in left field - that my employment should be up to me. She still does not understand this, even today. If I were, for instance, say I was preparing to start a business, guess what - WWIII all over again. Except, this time, I would be gone. I have not ever left for an extended time, although that possibility was always there during my military career, and I did have a couple of 6-week TDYs in there. In her eyes, when I switched jobs, I chose 'career' over her. I still today just cannot see that.
My wife has always had a confrontational attitude about things like work hours, trying to insist that I do what she says about them, refusing to even discuss it when I say, for instance, that I might need to work late or on a weekend day. She completely fears losing control, and therefore she believes she should never give even an inch about anything. Everything is a slippery slope to her, with some unacceptable result at the end, so she fights every battle like hamburger hill or something. This is not just work, it is everything, finances, raising kids, you name it.
I don't see my W's attitude in you over your H's move. I see you taking steps to keep your D in high school, with friends, which is good. I went to 3 high schools and I can see the wisdom of your approach.
Let me address the OP. Like you, I have met someone who has made me really think about the future. I have met someone who has shown me, in a short time, what I am missing in an R. Someone who offers affirmation, support, a smile, interesting conversation, who actually needs me, at least as a friend, and lets me know it. My goodness what an eye opener it has been. For it has shown me I am too young to live the rest of my life in a miserable relationship. It has shown me that people in relationships should make efforts to show they care about each other. That people should not be afraid to affirm each other, to tell each other they are OK, desirable, loved, cherished.
J, I see in you a desire to want to have your H be the one to meet your needs, so long unmet. I see you wanting to give him another chance. But I see you feeling like you will have to surrender too much to do so. I see that your H maybe misses you all, but has not really shown you that he has changed. And here is where you and I meet, because, in my sitch, I am in exactly this place. I see little evidence that my W is willing to change and to address the severe deficiencies in meeting my needs, to address the communication difficulties, the control, the constant hurtful comments, etc. So, like you, I have this moral question before me. And the really soul searching questions like "how will I look back on this in 20 years?" are there. For me, at least, the kids are older, so I don't have to soul search as much over that part. I guess, my friend, that is the definition of a crossroads. How do I answer the question "does my wife really care enough to change?" And that is your question as well. Thank you for all of your advice over on our controlling spouse thread.
Thanks for putting my links in one place!!!.... What's that mean? Do I have to do something? (No? Oh, good).
More later, but I appreciate you doing this, and am laughing at how very little I know of the "real" world. Just had the gas guy fix my water heater, which Thank God, I was able to diagnose as actually needing a repair....but barely...glad to have been able to light the pilot and watch it go out 4 times in a row....that's how I knew I had a problem!!! (She IS educable).
All in all, I am much more self reliant than I was before, b/c I have to be. Yard stuff, appliances, machinery, cars, etc. I'm getting better. Someday, maybe computers....
thanks again, j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Oh, you can do it - I just wanted everyone to be able to find your threads. One more attempt to explain: When you are reading the thread you want to 'link' click in the address bar so it highlights blue. Then hit Ctrl-C to place that text into the 'clipboard'. Now reply to your thread you want to insert the link into. When you are replying, click the little red URL text under the heading that says "Instant UBB Code". A window will pop up. In the window, click in the entry field. Then type Ctrl-V to place the text from the clipboard into your reply box. The window will change and say 'Script prompt". Type in the word 'link', or 'my old thread' or something like that.
This will result in the codes to create the link being inserted into your reply box. The text you typed should show up in red, and it should go to that thread when you click on it.
Now on to business, what about these recalcitrant spouses of ours?
H is here and so is s20, which makes it the first time in a year that all 3 kids and H have been together....feels good, with a few adjustments and cranky moments aside...It's hard to all be together 24/7 when it has been this long and even last year was only for 3 days. This time, H is here for 2 weeks, and then H and I go to Hawaii in January--wacky, huh??!!
No decision about which of us will move, if either. But we'll see what happens with each of our job searches.....I am open, for now. I won't do anything too crazy or anything that doesn't feel authentic. I will make the choice MOST LIKELY to make me and d9 and H, happiest in the long run...I don't assume without question, that being together is the answer. I need to spend time with H like we are now. We are different and have been apart for some time. Also, I do find that anger periodically gets triggered from little unexpected things....a Christmas card from a colleague I never met, since I wasn't there....stuff like that. Not a woman either, just a "separate" friendship that would not have happened if H hadn't left..... I happen to have c appointment this Tuesday, the 26th and H is coming with me....!! That could help a lot in seeing how this all could work. Sometimes it doesn't feel realistic...
Anyhow, everyone, have a wonderful blessed and peace filled Christmas. Peace that comes from knowing that ALL IS WELL in the universe, no matter what happens with a spouse or other person. WE are in charge of our souls, and God knows what is in our hearts. Good luck all, j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
WOOHOO!!! Hawaii!!! Don't forget to get your Brazillian done before you leave
Seriously...Enjoy your time with your Husband. It has been a long time coming and you will finally have a chance to see how things are between the two of you. Relax, let him spoil you and pamper you. I know too well about those little triggers and they are like little landmines. There are certain words in my vocabulary that trigger them also, certain places, certain names. I am trying hard to brainwash myself and I guess in time these things will diminish some. Hang in there, don't think so much!!!
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
I can't offer any good advice on whether to go or not, except that to trust your "inner voice." If you have doubt, don't do it. Work on your R as much as possible before you uproot yourself and D to follow H, so that you know you have a strong footing to start with.
