She left, came back, still loves OM, what do I do

[Contyankee]

K,

That's why we call our MLC's the "awakenings" and MLCs for men, stupid, selfish cliches... a tad self serving....Okay, enough said. I am sexist when it's convenient....isn't everyone?

Here is some free legal advice, that also applies to DBing.... SHUT UP!!!

Stop the staring and analyzing and stop the TALKING!!!!!. She may be in her own version of MLC, and regardless, let's hope she sees that her issues are HERS and not yours. EXCEPT, K, you ARE responsible for some of this and the great news is that you see you have a role in all this. Own that, by DOING things differently. Please stop talking about it.

Talk is cheap and worse, it's a form of pressure. But loving her in HER language is just loving her.....Doing it, not talking or reading about loving her well. Just loving her well, better than before. I doubt that can be wrong. Does this make sense?

Not suggesting that you drop the DB at all. Just wishing you would do it for real and for more than a day or two without wanting immediate gratification back. In the "5 Love Languages" Chapman says that "

"Real love is not about getting what you want...." Give some thought to that whenever you wonder how effective your 4 hours of effort have "paid off" yet.....you ARE wanting it back, reciprocity style. Stop that please. It isn't loving, it's needy. ANd it is waaaayyyyyy tooooo soooooon AND it is hurting the chances of your M ever working.

Kirby, Please listen to this advice from 25yearsmic. She is very intelligent and she has posted similar things to me b/c I needed it. Its beginning to make sense and that was an obstecle that wasn't easy for me, but one I am still working on. I have a thick skull and realize that I didn't know squat on how to treat my W. Read that book that she suggested by Chapman.
Rocco

[kirby]

GH,
You've hit the nail on the head. I think, for me, almost all of it comes down to your quote:

<quote> I am POSITIVE that this aspect of your personality, always deferring to her, always waiting to make SURE you do what SHE wants it a HUGE issue with her.</quote>

The MC says I am too accommodating. My wife tells me I rely on her to make me happy, that I say things like "what would you like me to do this weekend". To me, that's being considerate. What she hears is that she is responsible for telling me what to do, that I can't figure it out for myself.

I could get into my history and childhood about why I might be this way, but I don't know if it would be helpful. But I've spent so many years (my whole life?) being this way, that it's not just hard to change, it's hard to even imagine what change would be like.

I think it will take time for me to figure out what I want and what I want to do.

Here is an example of some small changes I'm trying to make. I don't like watching TV too much. My W seems to love it. In the evening, I'll get tired of just watching TV. My daughter will play games with me, and that's fun, and something I want to do. Sometimes my son will join us. When my wife was away, we started getting away from the TV and playing more.

I do need to be careful about money. I'd love to go out more, but my new job doesn't pay as much and I retired from the reserves so I lost that extra income. Of course, the separation had its own expenses. The DB phone coach wasn't cheap. The plane ticket my wife used to leave, then the one flying her back, the lawyer I consulted, all add up. I'd like to start Aikido lessons, and I will as soon as I get the finances straightened out. If my wife gets a job, that will help too. It will also, I believe, make her happier with herself.

In the meantime, I'm suffering from a lack of imagination. How does someone who is not too accommodating act, especially in relation to other people? How do you know what makes you happy? Just try stuff and see how you like it?

But dealing day to day, waiting for inspiration, dealing with the sense of loss, pain and hurt, and trying to fix things, I think the key is, whether I am detached enough or focused on myself enough (I'm not either yet) is to act as if I am.

Today I'm having a hard time not talking to my W. We are still snowed in and I'm working from home again, so I don't have the usual office distractions. I’d love to share a nice conversation with her. Also, I’m plagued with jealousy and fear today. I’m battling both feelings and keeping my mouth shut. If there is one thing I can do that will help immediately, if nothing else by stopping a negative, it’s to stop talking to her about anything. Almost everything I say, she seems to resent a little. Any time I talk to her, I’m imposing somehow. I need to keep quiet, unless she talks.

I have said before, and I see examples of it daily, that things will get worse before they get better. Maybe I need them to get worse for me to really get it through my thick head what I’ve done wrong and that I’ve got to take action. Maybe I can keep things from getting worse by taking action, really looking inside, and possibly getting my own C.

[kirby]

Yes, I'm disturbed.
I do have flaws. I am having a hard time dealing with them. GH hit upon a big one for me; I pretty much always try to accommodate or please my W, which means checking with her on almost everything. To her, it seems that it is on everything. To her it seems that she is in charge of my life and happiness.

Also, I talk way to much, analyze too much, and won't let things drop.

And... yes I am needy.

And... I'm starting to suspect I've engaged in mind reading, expectations, maybe even some passive aggressive/ controlling behavior.

And... I'm impatient, selfish, and not listening, not even too myself.

I'm starting to see I've got a bit of work to do. Much of it won't be readily noticeable by my W, but that's not the point. These are things I need to change regardless. First, I need to be aware of them, then I need to take ownership of them. Then correct and change them. Or, start changing and see if that doesn’t fix the underlying problem.

I had my “Ah Ha” moment a few days ago, where I could see, at least partially, how I had contributed to the M/R problems. Then it wore off. I really hope I don't need it beaten into my head too many times, and if I do, I hope it's by you all here instead of my W.

I've been re-reading the advice everyone has given me. TL told me, like you did J, that small changes add up. I'll have faith that what seems small can amount to something important. But, even if it doesn't, a small improvement isn't so bad either.

J - I've tried finding your most recent posts to see how you are doing. I’m found lot’s of advice you were giving out, but I didn’t find your posts. Can you point me in the right direction? I hope you and yours are doing well.

Working at home, snowed in, almost drove me crazy. Being so close to her all day, and not talking to her, was hard. I started wondering what she was doing all day in the basement. Was she emailing the OM? Was she talking to him on the phone? When she came up not wearing her wedding ring, I thought she was trying to tell me something.

Today, I braved the roads and came into the office. It’s helping me detach and get some distance, figuratively and literally. I’m still jealous and worried, but I think I’m keeping it under control. I’m concentrating on having a pleasant Christmas trip to her parents house. I’ll focus on making that as positive as possible, with no emotion, no expectations, no R talk, just have fun. I think I’ll have time to think about me, my faults, what I need to work on.

Thanks

[25yearsmlc]

K,
To find my posts, which someone linked for me the other day, look under Piecing together, or not?" or something like that.

Marianne Williamson had a quote in her book that reminded me of you.

"JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T VERBALIZE YOUR ANGER,....DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T RUNNING YOUR LIFE..."

Anger is something that finds a way, like grass in the sidewalk, it will come out but not where or when you want it to.
j-

[kirby]

Thanks J,

I took a look and didn't see anything after 12/18. Again, I hope your weekend goes well and the holidays too.

[kirby]

Thanks for the comments. My wife is a terrible housekeeper,but she did say she feels responsible for everything. I need to lift some of the load. By the way, I am apparently not a very good housekeeper either (although a little better than she is

Excellent point about small changes; that they may be big in her eyes.

Thanks, chime in any time, and have a happy holiday

[kirby]

and overly dramatic. As I've put in my earlier posts today and yesterday, I think, I have been working from home and it's been hard on me, maybe on her too.

She seems to be hidding her phone, purse, and day planner from me. I keep wanting to snoop.

I know that if she wanted to talk to the OM, she could easily without me knowing. But if I checked her phone, and there were no calls to or from him, then maybe I could rest a little easier.

But if there were calls from him, what would I do? Confront her? Let it eat me up inside? I think it's better not to know, and it's taking the high road.

To keep my emotions and urges in check, I'm telling myself I won't snoop until after christmas. I don't want to sabotage what could be a good time. But I don't know if I'm strong enough. If given the chance, which she seems determined not to give me, I think I'll weaken and snoop.

I've been re-reading he advise TL and GH and others have given me, especially about jealousy and the OM. The point is, I think, I can't control her. If I try, I'll push her away. It will only make me feel bad. I need to focus on myself and not worry about the A. Our M problems aren't really about the OM anyway, or the A. (but I want the OM gone for good so that we can really work on our M, and she can decide she wants to work on the M).

I won't snoop. I'll keep working on me. I'll take the high road. I'll detach, finding my happiness inside myself, instead of through her.

'Cause it's gonna be a good Christmas. We are going to have fun, it'll be positive, unemotional, good time.

Thanks for listening, have a jolly, joyous, merry, happy holiday.

[peter2DB]

(but I want the OM gone for good so that we can really work on our M, and she can decide she wants to work on the M).

Kirby, this is mistaken thinking and it will send you down a very wrong path.

FORGET about the OM and whether he is there or not there. Yes, I know that is hard to do. But, if you really believe he is merely a symptom and not the cause of your W's discontent (as you indicate) then it's an illusion to think, that his absence will somehow free "us" (i.e. you and her) to work on your M. She is NOT GOING TO WORK ON YOUR M for the time being, I think you need to connect with that.

Your job right now is to work on you, to love yourself and to bring yourself to a stronger place. She is on a journey of her own and all you can do is smooth her path home. Whether or not she takes it is her decision, but you can make that easier for her if you back off.

I won't snoop. I'll keep working on me. I'll take the high road. I'll detach, finding my happiness inside myself, instead of through her.

'Cause it's gonna be a good Christmas. We are going to have fun, it'll be positive, unemotional, good time.

THAT'S more like it!!!!

Peter



This whole thing sucks, doesn't it?????? I wonder if Smurf's MLC lounge is open tonight - I think we all need some ice cold beer.

[25yearsmlc]

K,

You cannot control your wife or whether she has contact with OM. Period. You CANNOT CONTROL YOUR WIFE"S BEHAVIOR....so stop trying.

You are wasting so much of your life's energy on something you Cannot do, and where should/could that energy be better spent? With YOURSELF, working on you, Your Children - who need you now more than ever, and or your M with your W. Not your R with OM or HER R with OM......

no matter what you find or do not find out about OM or contact with your W, you will NOT find peace...IF you do find they talked, you'll be upset and if you don't find that,you will still wonder. It is pointless. Be strong. And I haven't posted in a few days, H is here now so I can't do this for too long. He'll think I'm having an A with YOU....??!!

Good luck,
j-

[kirby]

Thanks J,
I need the support to keep from doing something stupid. Although, I guess I'm lucky, 'cause I've been reading some other's posts, and the people advising them aren't nearly as tough as you, or TL, or GH are on me. I'm trying to make a joke, but I don't know if it's working. Anyway, thanks, I do need the 2x4s and reality.

So far so good. I could have snooped today, and didn't. I know you are right. Even if I find no proof, it'll mean nothing.

Today, my W and I had a talk about money. She has a retirement account that I think she considers as hers, not ours. I think that is her safety/freedom money. Using the speaker-listener skills we are learning in the communications class, I told her I felt she wants to keep that money seperate in order to have some freedom. She said it's our money and offered to give me the password and access too it. I declined to take it. If she gives it to me, I'll accept it. If she offers I'll decline because I think she is doing it because she feels she should. Regardless, I took it as a good sign. Good enough sign.

J, I hope your H and you make lots of progress. I'm betting on it. Although, I try to foster the mind set of "thy will be done" instead of "give me what I want". For you, I wish for the best for you.

And thanks for making the time to post something. It's greatly appreciated.