She left, came back, still loves OM, what do I do

[25yearsmlc]

Hey K,

The book I was referring to, which may have been meant for someone else's post, but helped at the time, was called "Fighting FOR Your Marriage" and is premised on the assumption is that resolving conflict BADLY leads to D, although the amount of conflicts is not significant. Also, the book teaches the tools of happy healthy M's b/c they are not "magic" behaviors. Also the book talks about Preventing little irritants from turning into gaping wounds we ignored or picked at for years.

I Am reading the WIld Heart" which talks about men mostly, but brings in how WE women fit their/your world. The WHeart book is for me to try and understand the nature of my H's goals, jobs, MLC's, as a man, etc. THAT book is already making me uncomfortable b/c I keep judging it. "That's wrong", etc. Enlightening for sure.

In the WIld Heart book, it also talks about what WOMEN want down deep. Not the same as what men want in life. It says men see themselves and their life's success more in terms of goal achieving, than in Rs as women do. Says Men want to be on an adventure in their life, and they want to "rescue" a beautiful princess and bring her ALONG WITH THEM on the adventure...(THIS fits MY H's mlc and viewpoint, at this time, perfectly). The book also says we women want to be THE mission, and/ or to be rescued by the mank AND protected (total agreement from me on the protection part) and highly valued as their man's "beauty" (total agreement here on that too). So, don't tell my feminists friends, okay?

Last but not least K, don't get so down about how "long" it might take for you guys to "get there" and have the great M you know you can have. It isn't like you'll be in hell, digging ditches while you are "working" on it, you know?

I mean, the Journey is the Trip....sometimes it IS the "work" in a M that makes the highs sweeter, more appreciated....not just a cliche. I mean, getting thru hard times WITHOUT bitterness and or anger, but with real insight and forgiveness, and UNconditional love, wow....THAT's a legacy of M commitment....maybe a bigger, better one than a M that had never met a challenge. Those of us who dig down deep to find every resource within to stay and Love, and who get THAT back from our chosen one.....wow, THAT is the goal and the image I have to keep in mind, or I'll give up.....right now, I'm all motivated again.

later,
j-

[kirby]

Thanks j,
I have the book, Fighting for your marriage. It's the text for our communications for couples class we are taking. My wife worked at the Univ. of Denver, and knows of the author, who she tells me is divorced. Oh well. Maybe he learned a lot from that experience. I like the book so far, and can see using the techniques in many relationships. My wife and I definitely didn't handle conflict well (lots of negative interpretations and withdrawal behavior).

I might look into the Wild at Heart book. Maybe I've got some issues I need to look into.

Thanks for motivating me a bit too. I am doing better, I think, on not getting hung up on how long it will take. It isn't hell, for me, yet, working on this. There are some positive side affects, and some positive in the whole situation. But I wish my W and I were both committed to this and battling more as a team against these problems.

In a way, I guess we are a team. She is here, not with the OM, she is going to counseling, she does talk to me, and she is even kind on occasion.

I appreciate you responding to my posts. I think it's good to have a female perspective.

I've read a little of your sitch, and if you don't mind, I'll read up some more on it. I wish you luck.

[kirby]

Good morning, I hope everyone had a good weekend. I’m writing today to find a friendly voice, review my successes and failures, and get my needed kick in the pants or word of support. This is way too long, and probably should be split up, but here it is anyway.

This weekend went relatively well. I took my son to his Lacrosse game, which they one, then took him for a Danish and coffee and some father son time. We also were able to find and buy Christmas gifts for the W. Later that day, my D had a b-ball game. She played really well and had a good time. I’m the assistant coach, and had a good time too. W and S came and watched too. I stayed out of the house much of the afternoon, running errands and such. That evening, we all went to the Nutcracker. We had a good time. My W was still, to me, a little cold and distant, but she enjoyed it, as did we all.

Sunday, my W and I had a R talk. I know, I know, less talk, more action. I feebly tried to skip the talk, but since my wife was willing, I thought I should take advantage of the time. I decided to tell her how I felt she had been carrying the marriage, and what I felt I had done wrong. That part went well, or well enough. She did say she wondered about my motives for telling her this. I said I had doubted my motives too, but had decided to tell her anyway because I wanted to ask for her forgiveness, and to help me forgive myself.

But of course, I have to keep talking. I should have stopped there. But I brought up other topics (I don’t think she brings up topics. Another example of why I have to shut up, be patient, and see if she doesn’t initiate a conversation). I brought up that I’d like to cultivate the friends I have and be more socially active. I wanted to meet an old friend for a beer after work, but the kids schedule is full, and I didn’t see how I could fit it in. She said she could handle it. I know she can. I expressed concern because one of her complaints was that she was the uber-responsible one and I didn’t want that to happen again. Then, it hit me hard, I realized I was also afraid she might leave again and I can’t rely on her – I have to protect me and the kids. I was overcome with emotion, crying, wanting to tell her what I felt. She asked me to tell her what I was thinking, and like a moron I did. She was very hurt that I would suggest she would leave the kids. After she got angry, we talked more, I admitted that I knew in my head she wouldn’t leave, but in my guts, I was still afraid. I said I would work on overcoming that feeling. I know she needs to feel trusted again. I don’t bring this stuff up. I’m not like the people I’ve read about in the books who need constant reassurance, although I’d like it. I think she feels guilty and so assumes I still haven’t forgiven her. Forgiveness. Interesting topic. I feel I’ve forgiven her. I feel that’s done with. I want to move on with fixing our M/R. Maybe I haven’t forgiven her yet, or at least not completely.

We also had an end of season dinner for my D’s b-ball team. I put the party together, out of character for me. W and S attended too. Some of the other adults knew W had left, but they treated her well. My D had a great time. I played a couple of games of pool with my S too.

During the R talk, my wife said that part of the reason she wouldn’t leave is because she had no where to go. Also, she said she didn’t feel she belongs anywhere, that she’s not at home. This could partly be because she is sleeping the basement like a guest. But what can I do to help? Time, I think will help, especially if I keep up the good actions; being positive, friendly, helpful, taking care of business etc. But what else can I do? Can I do anything? Is there something I shouldn’t do?

Coming attractions: working on Actions, not talk. Goals.

[kirby]

I may be talking to myself today, but I consider it more of journaling than talking to myself, and if I talk here, maybe I can keep my mouth shut at home around the W.

So - I need to act and not talk. How to act, how to decide what to do? By setting goals. My goals are, 1) Be stronger, happier, healthier, better person. 2) Be a better father 3) Be a better husband.

I can be a better husband - or Friend to my W - by taking care of the first 2 goals and 1. being there when I'm needed. 2. taking care of stuff; finances, my job, house, etc. 3. Listen - if and when she feels like talking. 4. Make time for her and us to be together to talk, have positive experiences.

I can be a better father by taking care of goals 1 and 3, and 1. Make time to spend with kids 2. Listen 3. activities together 4. be there.

I can be a better person by 1. exercise 2. make my new job a great job that I can enjoy and feel like I'm accomplishing professional goals 3. be more social, spend more time with friends 4. Find activites that I enjoy that I can do (maybe Aikido, when finances allow).

Now I need to put target dates on more specific goals, and complete the list of tasks.

This is what I should have done years ago. It's a shame it took some hell like this to get me moving again.

[kirby]

Grasshoper,
What kind of actions did you do while piecing? How did you keep from talking too much.

How about you toughlover? Or anyone else?

I am currently doing more of the housework, taking on the kids routine, lessons, etc., being pleasant, planning and cooking dinner, making sure not to do 2 annoying habits my wife pointed out to me, not snooping, planning occasional activities for W and me and for family, started some exercise... I'm not focusing on my job like I should (writing in here instead ). Luckily, my boss still thinks highly of me.

So what else can I do? What should I be doing?

I'm doing the things above because I want to, not to impress my W. If it does, great. However, I also want to impress my W, or at least help her. She says she doesn't feel like she's at home, has a place, feels safe (my word). How can I act to help her feel at home?

[toughlover]

I am currently doing more of the housework, taking on the kids routine, lessons, etc., being pleasant, planning and cooking dinner, making sure not to do 2 annoying habits my wife pointed out to me, not snooping, planning occasional activities for W and me and for family, started some exercise... I'm not focusing on my job like I should (writing in here instead ). Luckily, my boss still thinks highly of me

All great stuff. If that's who you are now, and who you are going to be in the future, it will pay off. The problem is that as long as you are looking for it to pay off with your wife, that's a sign that you're just doing it for her. Gotta do it just for you, just cause it's right and feels right to you. It will take a long, Long, LONG time of doing that, but if it's real, at some point, it will simply become the new normal.

So what else can I do? What should I be doing?

You tell us.

However, I also want to impress my W

It sounds like you're doing all the right things. Look for opportunities to surprise her or just carry more of the load than her.

She says she doesn't feel like she's at home, has a place

Well, considering what's gone on, that seems reasonable. Sounds to me like the best thing you can do is give her the space to feel that way and work through it on her own. But in the meantime, make damn sure you're taking care of the place so that when she does want to feel home there again, it's a great place to be.

How can I act to help her feel at home?

Personally, I'm not sure there is much you can do to make her feel anything except keep taking care of business and do special things for her as long as she's receptive to it.

The most important stuff I did was eliminate the negative behavior.

Second most important was truly acting "as if". It seemed to set her free. At some point (and I'm not saying your W is there yet), WAS seem to want to know that the past won't be an anchor weighing the future down, wants to know it's possible to get a "do-over", for both of you.

Give her time and space, show her you're respectful, and that you're strong enough to handle yourself through this and take care of the family.

If you can avoid letting your pain and grief be a distraction for either of you, if you can just let it go (just decide that you're even and are starting over from scratch), you will be free to live the kind of life that's best for YOU.

[25yearsmlc]

K,

Before I forget, buy the book The Five Love Languages, by Chapman. Yes, I know it's a lot of reading, but THIS book has helped me the most, since the DB books...

I send out what I see as "love" but what I need to send, is love in the language H wants/needs. Same from him to me. We have different languages and that means we have both turned away from love that was sent to us....food for thought and now, I'll go read the rest of your post.
j-

[kirby]

Thanks for the input TL. I took the part about not letting the pain and grief come through and acting "as if" especially to heart. I think, my perception, is that I'm amazingly strong and not showing pain. She might disagree. I think I've been great about not being an anchor, ready to forget, or at least move on from, the past. Again, I'm not sure she would agree completely. I think part of the reason she might not agree is because not enough time has passed. She might see my actions, but not believe them yet. She might have enough guilt that she doesn't believe I could move on. Or not. Meanwhile, I don't like feeling hurt, jealuos, or angry, and I choose not to most of the time. I think she thinks (oops, getting myself in trouble here) that I've got a lot of pain and anger still. She doesn't know how much I've already put aside. The hurt that shows on my face now is mainly due to her pulling away from me now, not then.

Tonight, I was going to meet a friend after work for a beer. My W was supportive of this. I think it would have been good for me to have a little fun and give her some space. But, the lame-o bailed on me. But I didn't want to go straight home, so I did a little Christmas shopping, then came to a fre WiFi place to play a little on line. I can't get online and have much privacy at home, so this is nice.

[kirby]

-j
The library has that book, and Divorce Recovery, so I'll get both. I hope DR is not a rehash of DB. Have you read it?

Also, I've been reading a bit of your sitch. Your situation is definately different than mine, but I imagine much of the pain is the same. I'll have to read up, educate myself about MLC. Your H seems to fit the alien definition to me.

Thanks again.

[kirby]

My W and I had a R talk on Sunday. I dicussed it in yesterday's post I think. One thing that came out of it was I admitted that I was afraid that because she might leave again, i was afraid to let her take too much responsibility for the kids. She took it as meaning that I thought she was a bad mother. She was very upset and angry. Today she told me again how angry she was. I apologized again.

OK, so I know I shouldn't have said it. It was honest, and a very strong emotion, but I should have kept it in. I've apologized. I will again. Is this irrepairable? Did I really stick my foot in it?

But on the other hand, can't she see that a good mother doesn't abandon her kids? Can't she see that I have a reason to fear she might abandon us again? Can't she see that the right thing to do is to admit she made a huge mistake, at least as far as the kids are concerned, and then work to fix it?

I know, would I rather be happy or right. I think I'd rather be happy. But, maybe not. Maybe I don't want a women who actually can't see that what she did was wrong as the mother of my children. Maybe it's not worth putting up with this crap. Maybe, by saying I'm sorry and playing this game, I'm being dishonest to her and myself.

I know I may never get an apology from her. I can live with that, I think.

Someone, maybe grasshopper, asked if you knew that at the end of all the pain and effort you would have a fantastic M, would you do it. Yes I would. Too bad no one can garauntee the results.

So, help? Did I really mess up? Can I recover?