What to expect...part three

[SweetRedd]

Gosh, you're right Mama.. I didnt see that.

Can't lure them in and pin them up against the wall at the same time, can we? In my sitch, I know acting as if I'm sexy and desirable works along with asking for what I want (and being willing to get a "no"!" But, I can see where maybe being emotionally approachable and loving and not demanding works to draw him closer too. Making him comfortable with being intimate with me, but owning my sexuality and needs and not being afraid to express it regardless of his reaction.

So hard to know what to do! I've started a thread in piecing. If you get a chance, I'd appreciate your support and input.

Sheila

[believing_isaiah43]

I'm not saying that I'm giving up on the wall-slamming deal; I'm just saying it will most likely be successful when everything else is in place, and been dealt with. You are so early in this process, and I KNOW that's when the impatience is so strong. JMHO, as always. Feel free to slam the man against something, I'm all for it, but I also don't feel you are strong enough to deal with the possible rejection right now. AGAIN, I'm only giving my opinion from my own little corner of the world.

[Mamabear]

Just a quick weekend update...

Well nothing to report on the front. I kind of tried but H is just not into it. Although I have to admit I am not either. I have thought alot about it and I am plain afraid. I'm afraid that he doesn't find me attractive anymore, I'm afraid that he thinks I am boring and mechanical, I'm afraid to be rejected so I half-heartedly try to initiate.

On the other hand I feel that H is uncomfortable too. Maybe he feels the same as I, I really don't know. Should I talk to him about it? You guys tell me. Everything else about our relationship and interaction is great, better than great but when it comes to physical intimacy it is like we both are uncomfortable and afraid.

Any "new" suggestions or advice.

[brandnewday]

Mama
I have read your posts and just wanted to add something.

For the first time in over 20 years my Husband and I are finally able to talk about sex.

The one thing that I really paid no attention to throughout my marriage suddenly became so important because I was deprived of it.
We were not intimate for 2 years during his MLC.

It started out very slowly, little things, lots of compliments to build him up, a touch here and there.

I worked on "me". The way I dressed, taking care of myself, makeup, etc. He began to notice.

During your marriage, before the A, what did you use sex for?

A reward? Control? Love? Manipulation? I ask you this because my Husband asked me this question recently.
He asked because things are so different now and he wanted to know why I made these changes.

I told him that it was time to explore another part of my life, for him and for me.

So now we have gone from avoiding the white elephant in the room to the other extreme.
Maybe one day we will find a balance.

But I must say, sex is no longer a taboo subject.

It just makes me sad to think that there was so much we missed out on for fear of rejection by our Spouse, the one person who truly loved us and we couldn't see it.

[grasshopper]

Well nothing to report on the front. I kind of tried but H is just not into it. Although I have to admit I am not either. I have thought alot about it and I am plain afraid. I'm afraid that he doesn't find me attractive anymore, I'm afraid that he thinks I am boring and mechanical, I'm afraid to be rejected so I half-heatedly try to initiate.

Mama, this is indeed a problem. I had all the same issues, every last one of them and responded the same way. Actually, as good as things have been going lately for me, I STILL feel that way, and have shown it over the past few days, only half-heatedly initiating, kinda like "Hey, if you want to ML, so do I, but it's ok if you don't..."

Guess what? I have not ML in a week. I know, sad story, but the moral to the story is that when MY attitude changes, when MY drive lowers, it affects what happens big time. Does that mean that it's right that it's all on me? Or, does it even mean it IS all on me? I don't think so.

What it means is that my W feeds on my confidence. She needs that. I KNOW it's not "right" for her to need that, but I also know it's the case so I work with what I have.

Mama, I really think that PM (sorry, this is NOT new advice) or a C that specializes in this kind of thing is the key. You somehow have to gain an independent sexuality. You need to somehow begin to have that feeling, and then project it.

Like I said, my own experiment (not one I really want to be having mind you) shows me that PM seems to be right on when it comes to the importance of each partner not needing the reflected sense of self in order to sustain a sexual relationship, ESPECIALLY in a complex, emotional environment like the one we all are in.

On the other hand I feel that H is uncomfortable too. Maybe he feels the same as I, I really don't know. Should I talk to him about it? You guys tell me. Everything else about our relationship and interaction is great, better than great but when it comes to physical intimacy it is like we both are uncomfortable and afraid.

100% yes. I thought you had been talking to him about it. I would say the sooner the better but make sure you know what you want to say, and have the words to say it. Don't beat around the bush. Just tell him how you feel, ask him how he feels and see where there is common ground. Maybe you can work through things together.

Mama, I don't mean to sound crude or insensitive but if he's afraid, and so are you, then sometimes the only way to get past that is to take a leap. If he TELLS you he's just afraid and uncomfortable, maybe just suggest something VERY different, or radical, like "Honey, I know we are both afraid but I am done being afraid. Tonight, when we go to bed, or even before then, I am going to -----." My point is maybe you just say that you are willing to take the leap, tell him what you want to do and try to be very willful about it.

It's so hard to give advice in this stuff because more than the other areas of our sitches, this one is so personal and possibly unique.

I know you feel this too, but I can't help but think there are flood gates just waiting to be opened here and once they are...

GH

[Mamabear]

I keep picking up PM, reading a few pages and then putting it down. I kind of understand what it is saying to me but I don't know how to implement it.

I really think all of our problems lie squarely on my shoulders. My self image is a VERY negative one. This actually goes way back, to my childhood. I have always been seeking approval from my Dad, even now at the age of 43. I never measure up, he has always found fault in me. Growing up, neither of my parents were very affectionate and they never told us they loved us. I guess I am desperately seeking approval and affection from basically everyone but I am afraid that I don't measure up and I don't deserve it.

I sure sound like a good candidate for therapy, don't I?

[Delil@h]

It just makes me sad to think that there was so much we missed out on for fear of rejection by our Spouse, the one person who truly loved us and we couldn't see it.




I have read this post and GH's post and yes this is so very personal and also extremely hard to overcome,,, but as much as we need of them to choose us they also want to be chosen and feel wanted.


I myself implemented much of what I read in PM during my Seperation,, cause I thought well H*ll if he is going to leave anyway he can go out with a bang and see who I really am,,,,, No pun intended. But really for years I was just shut down b/c he had had a previous A which even resulted n a DNA test ( not his Thank God)so I was pretty lost and felt extremely ugly and unwanted so instead of giving myself fully and letting him see how Beautiful I am I just closed off and stopped being alive......

I do even remeber him saying "why are you doing all these things now?'
As personal as ML is I feel ok in sharing all this with you so that you can enjoy what I now enjoy. ( and believe me it still takes an effort by me sometimes b/c of the OW issue... )

I remember in the summer I just went for it and he was very cold in the beginning b/c afterall he was with me and he was on the phone with her and she was his GF, OW whatever,,,,, But i looked at it like a blessing from Gid to be able to share myself in a new way with him and if he could not feel my Passion for him and my love for him he wuld have to have been dead,, well he sort of was,, but little by little even though I had to face my worst fear of him rejecting me then at least he would never be able to forget me......

I was competing with the OW and also with my old self ,, he most likely felt like I was doing all this to get him back but actually I was not ,, I do even remember saying to him well to me it is as if someone told me you have a terminal illness and I have to enjoy every minute of you,, if you are not enjoying it then we can stop and I will leave you alone,,,,, he never told me to stop.

Also I do believe that you can take the leap but also in your daily interaction try to fill up your H love tank as they say In 5LL as much as you can... cause I dunno how it is for men but if he feels you are not "into" him then maybe his Self Esteem needs to get back some more before he will even feel like being intitmate..... I dunno how it is for men though.

Plus I do remember my H feeling guilty b/c he had shared himself with another ( OW) and out of respect for me he told me I did not want to ML to you and yet I could not resist you... but I just never wanted to hurt you.... I did end up going to get a STD test done and he said he had used protection but I knew what sort of Woman she was so I was still scared and also I remember him feeling shame when he came home that nite and he told me to stop walking around in my Panties cause he couldnt have me anyway cause he was "dirty" I calmed him down by saying I never said that to you it is what you are feeling inside about yourself and please stop it,, you can have me afterall I still love you,,,,, This was just a few weeks before we reconciled.
I even remember one time during the beginning of our Sepearation when he was literally just laying there like I was torturing him instead of "doing" him and I was going to stop and he said it doesnt feel tooooo nice does it for me to just be laying here? and I sadi " well as a matter of fact ,, NO..." and to which he replied" Well you used to do this to me alooooooooot and act like it was a chore to ML to me and I still went about my day and I had to go to work feeling this way."

And let me tell you I felt sooooooooooooooo ugly and soooooooooooooooooo unwanted and I cannot imagine how he endured this for years,, one time for me felt like ... indescribable actually.....


I dunno when you will feel ready to take the leap but when the time is right you just will I hope.

When you get to that point the ML will surpass anything you have ever felt,,, maybe a sex Thereapist would be able to help too,, I saw one for @ 2 years in my First M and it did help but until I was able to realize in this M that me being a Sexual Being with my H was ok and actually a blessing and that Good girls ( Cathoilic) can be Erotic too, until I gave myself permisson it just was not there and the ML was just there BLAH ...

..... now it is so Real and Beautiful. It goes past just Ml to reach climax it takes on a whole new Beautiful feeling.

All My Best and Prayers are with you sweetie and I hope one day you can say "YES!!!!!!! I MADE LOVE TO MY HUSBAND AND IT WAS OUT OF THIS WORLD!!!!!!!! ~~~~ Give yoursef time, all in time,,,, ~~~~~~
GOD BLESS....

[Mamabear]

BND, GH & Ali,
Thank you so much for sharing with me; especially such personal stuff.

It's strange, I am deprived for a few weeks and I feel worthless and hopeless. Our sex life before the A was barely nonexistent to say the least, we would go months without doing anything and this went on for years. I can't imagine how this made my H feel. If only he would have opened up to me and told me of his dissappointment instead of crying on the shoulder of OW - man, how she must have eaten this up. H played right into her hands (the little homewrecking B!)

Anyway, enough about her. She means absolutely nothing to me. I just have to start doing things that make me feel good about myself as well as continuing to do things that makes my H feel wanted and loved. After all, like Ali says, life is what you make of it!

[SweetRedd]

(((Mama))) You're going through a lot, but you've come SO far! You can overcome this bump in the road too. Therapy might not be a bad idea. I can relate to how you feel so much of the time and short term therapy did help me alot to sort through things. It helped to face those things I've been carrying around for years and see that I don't need them anymore, i.e., others to accept me and say I'm good enough. It's still a process and I'm sure others have way more experience to share than me, but when you confront the lies that hurt your heart - it's easier to let them go and call them what they are. For instance, I always felt like I was a bad child and later a bad adult.. I can remember my mother saying I should be ashamed of myself when I got into trouble. Guess what? I carried that shame as part of me for years. Just having a therapist point that out and me saying "hey, that's not true! Im not a bad person who should be ashamed" well, it's made a major difference for me. Kind of like moving me from childhood into adulthood.. got me mentally into the present where I can look at a problem, see how I contribute, and see that I have power to change the situation. When we're young, we build up defenses because we're powerless.. but now we don't have to be stuck in that place.

Hang in there! As you well know these things are measured in baby steps. I think you're doing great..your H is home to stay, you're working, you're spending wonderful quality time together. Mama, you've come a LONG way!!

[Mamabear]

Hi All,

Just journaling here...

Worked late last night,(Bears game, lots of customers) I typically get home around 9 or 9:30 on Monday nights. Last night since the game didn't end until around 11:00 I ended up working way later than usual. We finally had to kick people out at 12:30, so I didn't get home until 1:00.

Just spoke with H on the phone and he sounded kind of cold and distant, says he may have to work later than usual tonight. My first reaction is, he is mad that I came home so late - he is thinking that I stayed and hung out at the bar with my friends so he is going to hook up with OW as some kind of passive/aggressive payback.

I asked him if everything was ok cause he sounded different and he replied yes, I'm just busy.

I know I shouldn't jump to conclusions but lots of times my instincts are right. How do I bring this up without sounding like I'm guilty of something and trying to defend myself?

I just feel like we are both running in circles but never meeting in the middle. That huge white elephant is still in the room. I wish there was some crystal ball where I could see what H is really thinking and doing and where we end up in the future.