You are really starting to get me worried lady. First the comments about friend's H's running off with no explanation and you and your H maybe heading that way. Now this talk about having an A! You are right this is a dangerous road.
Listen, I empathize completely (and it sounds like HD does too). The lack of sex and affection in my M has had me at a boiling point for awhile now. No matter that my own actions contributed greatly to the state I am in, what I am experiencing is on a biological level. When you are not touched, when you are not held, when you are not comforted, when your jokes fall on deaf ears, when the slightest playfulness is met with harch criticism, when nothing you do is right, when conversations are one-sided, when your decisions are always questioned, it is hard not to let it overwhelm you. It doesn't matter that I feel responsible, my ego is taking a beating and it is provoking a strong fight or flight response.
"We have a bedroom we can go in and shut the door to talk, he has an office we can shut the door and talk in, we can send the kids to bed at a reasonable d@mn hour and sit in our own living room to talk. He chooses not to engage in the same way he chooses not to have sex. It isn't a priority, it doesn't matter, it is something to do if you have time, if it is convenient and if the planets align to make it so. If it takes all that - why bother?"
I can feel the bottled rage in every word you write. I could have written those words myself ... right before I had my A.
"I know I sound like I'm heading down a dangerous road but I feel as if perhaps I need to get my romantic notions out of my head and join reality."
The reality of an A, no matter how "well intentioned" is that it will cause pain somewhere sometime. I think someone with as much physical desire as you do would have an impossible time not falling for someone with whom you had great sex. Of course, great sex involves all that emotional stuff to begin with.
"I do want sex. H probably does too but not really from me."
What makes you think this?
"The thing is that I don't really have time to manage a lover. He would have to be really low maintenance."
Sorry, I got some really weird male-female role reversal images when I read that. "OK, enough pillow talk, are we going to do this or not?"
"I am not all that hard on the eyes that I should have this difficult of a time getting laid."
Blackfoot, while he has helped me immensely to see the path that I need to be on, has also "hurt" me in that he taught me several of the signs of attraction from women. The bad thing is I now see it all the time. My C actually warned me about this situation, that my self-esteem would improve long before my M does. Others would note the improved image and increase their validation of me, creating a stark contrast with the lack of validation at home. I almost asked you a few days ago if you had seen any "bathtubs full of rainbows" hoping to cheer you up with good memories, but I figured it would provoke the same response in you as it would in me ... "why is it that a complete stranger would screw me if I gave them the right look, but my S who has permission to screw me all they want won't even verbally express their desire?"
As far as you having an A, I can only say that no matter how well-tailored it is, you will have regrets about it in some way or another.
JM2C
Chrome
p.s. You need to find a way to release your pent-up rage. Can you think of anything that would help?
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Yes - the rage is there but it is quiet rage at this point. I'm too tired tko make it anything more than that. H is loudly raging because of his hip pain and the business and seems to be mad in my general direction any time I express a need for support. He is beyond pissed that I'm concerned about being nearly 2 hours from my hospital during the 37th week of pregnancy. He doesn't want to hear it. I know he sees it as us making family time, him trying to meet the needs of the kid's school schedule and me just not getting it but he hasn't even tried to be sensitive to my feelings on the subject. As far as handling the rageful feelings - I just need to sleep. I need to start getting some rest and a lot of this will probably dissipate.
I won't have a secret affair. Believe me I understand the destruction that affairs create. What I am really talking about is trying, on some level, to understand where my H really is on this issue and accomodating it. I mean, the man doesn't want to fcuk me. I don't know whether he wants to do someone else but I don't know that he doesn't either. I'm just working with the data I have. I know I sound like I'm considering it but I'm really only considering whether I need to just give up my ridiculous quest to have regular sex within my marriage and whether there is some other route that would work. I realize that the practicality of the open marriage is that someone would get jealous, someone would feel that they got the short end of the stick, someone would probably fall in love and need to leave the marriage. However, the way we're going sure isn't leaving this marriage anywhere but a very vulnerable place.
Well, H and I are going to dinner Saturday night. I asked to talk and he insisted on dinner. It may be that the tables next door to us will get quite an earful. H has left me no venue to discuss things other than this so I guess this is where it will be discussed. H said a few weeks ago as I described my work insanity that I sounded very "fulfilled" and like an idiot I said that "Yes, my work is fulfilling." Actually, right now my work is overfilling. So I figure I will start the convo there. I am not fulfilled. I am overbusy at work, underinvolved with him, family and home and I am tired of it.
I addressed a few weeks ago when he yelled at me for something small that he appears to always be "mad at me" lately. He said I would need to give examples at the time that something happens and I pointed out that when he already seems ticked it doesn't seem like a good time. He replied that "you can't just wait forever." Now, I'm not waiting forever. I'm going to have to let him know that since we got pregnant this summer he has acted like a man having an affair, battling an addiction to something (drugs, porn, gambling) or who is biding his time until he can leave the marriage at a more convenient time. I come in the house and he goes the other direction, if I bring up work (which is all my personal life currently consists of) he changes the topic, if I bring up plans around the baby (getting the room in shape, whether it is safe to be 2 hours from the hospital in my 37th week) he "can't deal with that now", he goes to bed before or after me as much as possible, he doesn't want to have sex and when the doc says not to have sex it doesn't even occur to him that there are other sexual activities we could do, even the passionate pecks have practically ceased. Well, I plan to tell him that a lot of women would be considering hiring a private detective after five months like that.
It isn't that I'm not "solution oriented" - I have solutions but if we can't talk about work, baby plans, family vacations or much else lately except in short, logistics only conversations then how can we negotiate solutions. I can work on creating some "life balance" in some areas of my life - fitting in excercise, meditation, time for myself or whatnot but by myself I cannot discern what is up with his distancing. I HAVE to talk to him. If there is a truth that I need to hear I am ready to hear it: "K, you are fat, you are a whiner, I am in love with Cindy from company X, I am addicted to cyber-sex, whatever. I just cannot continue in this very vulnerable position of waiting on this baby, working my azz off and watching my life fall apart.
Any suggestions of a guy friendly (plain speaking, not too much embellishment) way of saying this? Yeah - I'm gonna ruin dinner. Goody.
I floated this idea a while ago, karen... and I'm going to float it again... do you think the impending baby is having an effect on his mental/emotional state? This is a huge deal to him, I would think. It's something he has wanted, and y'all have had several sad tries, but now it's happening. This will be HIS child in a way that your kids and the foster kids aren't. I know you've kind of blown off this idea, but as a childless person, I can't begin to imagine what he must be going through. I'm not deeply attached to anyone or anything in this world. Truly... there is no one that I love with a deep, all-consuming love and attachment that wouldn't keep me from getting on a ship to the moon tonight if I thought I could find happiness there. (Yeah, that makes me pretty sick and shallow, but that's another post.)
But a child binds you to him/herself in a way that I can't imagine. (I know we're supposed to be bound to our partner, but the partner chooses us-- sort of-- and the child does not.) I just think this baby is messing with his head... he may be wrestling UNCONSCIOUSLY with the tug between maintaining his detached status and the knowledge that he won't be able to be detached. Or maybe he's afraid he will take one look at the baby and won't be able to ATtach, not DEtach. Just think about this a bit. For those of you who have children, maybe you've forgotten what a huge change s/he made in your lives.
After all, k, your H was single for many years and probably thought he would never be a father. Then after your miscarriages, he may have resigned himself to not being a father. But now the Reality-- a lifetime unbreakable commitment to another human being-- is staring him in the face. I think it may be part of what's going on with him-- the withdrawal, hiding, edginess.
I tried to think of a few things to say, but I just cannot get inside your H's head. He makes no sense to me. I am not knocking him, I just have no base to understand the concept of rejecting a horny W, or of not being affectionate.
I will say though that I think Lil is on to something. In my history I know that I was creamed by the the whole kid thing. Having kids has been my W's lifelong dream so I just went along with it. When we had the miscarriages, the resulting depression and withdrawal from my W, I never even stopped to think about what it would mean to be a father, I just wanted my W to be happy again. So I know I didn't handle the pregnancy and first year or so, with the accompanying further withdrawal from my W away from a physical R, and compounded by my complete lack of skill in how to handle R problems or even understand them. I can maybe see some of that feeling overwhelmed and incapable of regaining a sense of control in your H. If your H does have problems with low self-esteem, withdrawal is a primary defense mechanism.
As far as dinner goes, I think based on your recent posts that you need to get it all out. Of course, do your best not to let emotions get in your way, no matter how hard that is. Breaking down crying or getting into a shouting match will just give him an excuse to stop the convo.
Ditto what HD said. Good luck.
Regards, Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Quote: ----------------------------------------------------- I addressed a few weeks ago when he yelled at me for something small that he appears to always be "mad at me" lately. He said I would need to give examples at the time that something happens and I pointed out that when he already seems ticked it doesn't seem like a good time. He replied that "you can't just wait forever." Now, I'm not waiting forever. I'm going to have to let him know that since we got pregnant this summer he has acted like a man having an affair, battling an addiction to something (drugs, porn, gambling) or who is biding his time until he can leave the marriage at a more convenient time. I come in the house and he goes the other direction, if I bring up work (which is all my personal life currently consists of) he changes the topic, if I bring up plans around the baby (getting the room in shape, whether it is safe to be 2 hours from the hospital in my 37th week) he "can't deal with that now", he goes to bed before or after me as much as possible, he doesn't want to have sex and when the doc says not to have sex it doesn't even occur to him that there are other sexual activities we could do, even the passionate pecks have practically ceased. Well, I plan to tell him that a lot of women would be considering hiring a private detective after five months like that. -----------------------------------------------------
I think that you should deliver the above statements, mostly unedited, with the same load of testosterone that you used to write it.
As for the potential of an affair, normally his behavior would send up all my flags, but only if your pregnancy wasn't a potential issue. As is, I would give it three out of five.
How did he treat you during your last pregnancy?
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
i understand that the whole baby deal sounds very scary. This is our second one together - first boy. He continues to talk about yet another (I can' t even see it). I can imagine that he has some fears around this subject but I don't think they are much more than every guy's worry about providing for his family. KWIM?
All,
Thanks for the encouragement. I don't expect much, frankly.
Nop,
Yeah - my only concern is sounding like a hysterical pregnant chick, easily dismissed. It seems that my concerns around this subject usually just get brushed off in a haze of - "K, don't you remember that we've been sick, working our tails off, had responsibilities, various stressors etc..." Only, I just don't see ANY of this stuff as an excuse for no intimacy, he see's all of these as a perfect excuse.
Quote; --------------------------------------------- Yeah - my only concern is sounding like a hysterical pregnant chick, easily dismissed. It seems that my concerns around this subject usually just get brushed off in a haze of - "K, don't you remember that we've been sick, working our tails off, had responsibilities, various stressors etc..." Only, I just don't see ANY of this stuff as an excuse for no intimacy, he see's all of these as a perfect excuse. ---------------------------------------------
I didn't think a "hysterical pregnant chick" wrote your post, so don't deliver it that way, just firm and assertive.
It may also be appropriate to consider/discuss not having additional children until the sexual part of your relationship can be addressed.
All the best! -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
