You are right there about "New Year. New excuses." H has them in seemingly limitless supply.
The rack reference was to my own LD. I enjoy having the nice rack for a change so it is hard to be calmly LD while seeing how long it will take for H to step up. H isn't seeming to care although he certainly enjoyed it last pregnancy.
Lil,
Backing down? That is my personal specialty. I am far more guilty of subverting my own needs, failing to state them at all, being secretly angry than I ever am of having a test of wills in which I won't back down. What is going on now cannot even be classified as a test of wills. H is just going along his way, submerged in his own stuff, hasn't even considered that we haven't had sex, is vaguely aware that there is something stand-offish in my manner - even as we laugh, wrap presents together, discuss family things etc... I am just living life and ticking off the weeks that we continue to not have sex. The only place my will is involved is in not willfully creating sexual conditions in an unwilling partner. I've been down that road too much with H to pursue it again. I've acted as his sexual "helper" to my own detriment. I thought, "Oh, if only I flirted with H, rubbed his feet (or back),put on the nice perfume, lingerie, candles etc... it would "help" him feel more sexual. Guess what - sometimes yes but mostly no. H feels sexual when H feels sexual. I have NO idea what motivates it. I just hurt myself when I try to create a desire that isn't there.
I am working on some of what the enneagram mentions - I am concentrating a great deal on leadership and achievment in my work. It helps me keep my mind off of issues with H. I don't disagree that I am in the red zone and I know that it is partly my continued silence that keeps me there. However, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor and I would be an idiot beyond compare if I allowed myself to approach H about any of this crap right now. I would accomplish nothing and I would take away from the sense of family, the togetherness, the peace, the joy that is the holiday season. I have merely compartmentalized H. Right now, he's the nice, comfortable partner, the guy I am preparing a lovely family event with and nothing more. I don't have a lover and I don't even have an intimate friend in H. I am "single" in that regard. I will gather my strength to address things after the holdays.
Quote: I've acted as his sexual "helper" to my own detriment. I thought, "Oh, if only I flirted with H, rubbed his feet (or back),put on the nice perfume, lingerie, candles etc... it would "help" him feel more sexual. Guess what - sometimes yes but mostly no. H feels sexual when H feels sexual. I have NO idea what motivates it. I just hurt myself when I try to create a desire that isn't there.
oh yeah. that doesn't work.
well, if the shoe were on the other foot, you could use the ~ultimate~ excuse: hormones. thats our latest thing. and you can't argue with that. everyone knows that "hormones" control everything, and that's the end of it. period. do not pass go, do not collect 200$$...its "hormones". "game over!" guys can't get away with that one, typically. (well...maybe...but unusual). But with you girls...its to be expected.
Note to self: when posting to cac, don't use metaphors; he takes them way too literally.
I didn't mean a suit that you can whip off and instantly change to something else. The question of what traits people are born with and what traits/behaviors they learn at a very early age is too deep to answer here (and I don't have the strength to debate it). Suffice it to say that these typologies are road maps (oops! metaphor alert!) This isn't who you ARE for all time down to the depths of your soul, no growth is possible, you're stuck with this and there's nothing you can do about it. Growth is always possible. Martelo's comment was a good summing up.
Are you sincerely looking for ways and tools that you may not have heard about before to improve your sitch, or are you just interested in proving why things won't work for you (because you're so special and have a unique understanding of the nature of the world that is lost on the rest of us)? When looking at those of us who have found things that work and who seem to speak a language that you don't understand...do you think we're deluded? wrong? mistaken? trying to pull the wool over your eyes? Or is it possible we're on to something?
Karen, I wasn't suggesting by highlighting that passage in red that you should kowtow to your H's mood and once again fly down the cheeseless tunnel. If you take that anger of yours (which is FULLY justified as are all feelings) and apply some of the tools from that toolkit, you may find it diminishing. There are several reasons for trying to diminish it, but the primary one is so YOU feel better. I personally don't care if your H feels better or not. But being preggie probably for the last time, AND during the holidays... honey, I want you to be enjoying everything about your life at this time.
Are you sincerely looking for ways and tools that you may not have heard about before to improve your sitch, or are you just interested in proving why things won't work for you (because you're so special and have a unique understanding of the nature of the world that is lost on the rest of us)? When looking at those of us who have found things that work and who seem to speak a language that you don't understand...do you think we're deluded? wrong? mistaken? trying to pull the wool over your eyes? Or is it possible we're on to something?
Yes!
according to the "stuff"...my outlook isn't "unique", but it is quite unusual. doesn't it make sense, then, that I wouldn't see things the same way most people would? That solutions that may work for many or most, would not work for me? If you've found something that "works", but can't speak a language that I understand, I don't think you're deluded, or being decpetive; I think I need a translator! "clarification". ( wanna understand something? try teaching it to someone else.) I need to try to poke holes in arguments to see if they hold water (oops! metaphor!). if it don't leak, maybe you ARE on to something.
Cac4 if you are intent on poking holes in an ideas to see if they hold water, I am going to suggest that you start with the ideas that you currently hold about your relationship, your partner, your self and your situation.
Just examine the beliefs that you do hold with the same rigor as those that you don't hold.
This I think gets at what Schnarch would call " taking yourself on ".
here, I stop by to see who's left on the board and how everybody is doing, and I see you've gotten yourself mired in a ton of $hit. Sorry to hear it. I have to pipe in though, because from an outsider's point of view, well how does that saying go...your problem is obvious. Girl, you need to share your thoughts with H. He's no more a mind reader than you are, and the longer you keep it all in the greater the distance between you will become. I'm sure he feels the distance, and if he's at all like me, that distance does nothing for getting his motor running. If you wait for him to jump in and read your mind and then do "the right thing", you may be waiting all the way to the end of your marriage. Don't do it. Your needs are going unmet, and you know what? It is your responsibility to get them met, not his. If you are feeling unfulfilled (and I know you are, like duh!), it is up to you and only you to tell him that your needs are not being met and to discuss with him how to fix it. It ain't gonna fix itself. I've been there and done exactly what you are doing several times over, and it doesn't work. The only thing that does work is to talk to each other. And I mean intimate sharing of your feelings, your needs, wants and desires. He knows you're hurting, but I'm sure he hasn't a clue as to why. Heck, he may have backed off to give you more space because he senses your anger/resentment but doesn't know where it is coming from. How can he? He can't read your mind.
See, this has been a hard lesson for me, Mr Incommunicado, too. If I haven't learned anything else since coming to this board, I've learned that good communication is absolutely essential to a healthy relationship. Without it, you get stuck in the mud just like you've found yourself here. Sad part is, I think that intimate communication is probably about the hardest thing for me to do, even when I know it gets results. When I get stuck like you are, I have to keep reminding myself that MrsGGB is not a mind reader, and there's no way she can really know what is going on in my mind if I don't lay it out for her in excruciating detail.
I think you know this in the back of your mind too. Please don't keep on this path of waiting for him to have a revelation, you'll only hurt your R by continuing on this path. Time to suck it up and just tell him, ya know H, we haven't had sex in 8 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours and 22 minutes and I am missing it big time. I've been quietly hoping that you'd take the lead and initiate but it hasn't happened. You not initiating makes me feel unwanted, unloved and rejected. It makes me feel like you've lost interest in me, and well that makes me feel very lonely. Can we work together to get a more satisfying relationship etc... K, you owe it to yourself to do this. Do as a Christmas present to yourself. Yeah, I know, it doesn't feel right etc. Yau are right, it is awkward as all heck, but it does get easier the more you do it.
GGB, just pokin' his nose in where it don't belong again. (hey, better my nose than somethin else )
Yes, I do and it really just doesn't make any sense at all does it? However, the longer he makes it clear that not only does he not understand much about me, he doesn't care to the less I do want to have sex with him. I KNOW what motivates me to want him - it is a pretty long list. What makes him want me? Not much.
GGB,
Your post made me tear up. Yes, I know you are right and I have put things to him in just the way you suggested time and time again. Every time I do it is heard as criticism, complaining and me being nigh unto a sex mainiac. I will think about it and see how it makes sense to approach things.
When you discuss it, can you identify his needs, the things he can't live without and try to explain your hurt in terms that mean something to him? He doesn't have the need for sex like you do, but you can bet you bottom dollar that he's got some needs that are just as important to him as sex is to you. Can you explain to him by analogy using his needs what you are feeling? Can you get him to mirror you when you talk about your feelings, and try to get him to identify with what you are feeling? Until you can find some common ground in the communication where he can really understand what you are feeling, you will probably go unheard. I know WWME didn't work for you, how about somewhere else that you two can focus on your communication? Counseling? I recommended a book a while back, "How to stay Married and love it" . It might be worth a read. Basically what she says is for an uncooperative spouse that opening up and spilling your beans in a loving way will eventually have your partner doing the same.
Anyway, it sounds like a combination of you not sending your message in a language he understands and him not bothering to try to understand what you are saying. You can work through this, but it is going to take effort on your part to get the ball rolling. It's going to seem at times like you are doing all the work (and that is a sucky feeling), but I can tell you with confidence that it is worth the effort. If the approach you are taking isn't working try tweaking it until the message comes across loud and clear. Like I said, you've got to get him to understand your feelings but framed in feelings that he understands, and (here's the hard part) put in a way that is not critical nor accusing. Just remember, it isn't anything you did, and it isn't a personal attack on you. Huge hugs to you Karen! Good luck to you, I know you can do it, you nympho!
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