Quote: I am so tired of the same litany of excuses as to why we don't ML. I think, in some ways, I would be relieved by ta big sexual secret - "I can only really get excited if your toenails are painted red" - whatever.
yeah, wouldn't that be nice? LOL! as my mom used to say, "if wishes were horses, beggars would ride..." thanks mom. inspiring...
You know, I've heard that pg makes some ladies more amorous. If there's any truth to that, I'm sure it just makes it all the worse. (probably an urban myth..don't believe any of that crap you read on the internet, right? lol!). of course, I wouldn't know anything about that. I think we did it once, after W got pg...then nothing for the better part of a year. PG is the ultimate excuse...for anything! "I'm pg, so I need more/less of ___"...who can argue!?! Of course, I always look at the bright side of that whole thing: now, 2 months seems like a short drought. "2 months? hey, I can do 2 months standing on my head". wish there was something I could say to help you chear up, but there isn't. I know those feelings of despair, so I know there isn't. Just know, there are plenty of us in the same boat, and understand exactly how you feel.
While I understand why you hold your tongue and don't speak your mind (cause it's a pain and you don't want to deal with his reactions)....that HONESTLY was one of the biggest keys to my H and I getting where we are now.
I stopped avoiding his reactions....he in turn was forced to deal with ME, as I am. I told him straight up one day, "If I've got something on my mind or something I need to get out of my system....I'm going to do it. You don't have to like what I have to say, but I'm not going to hold it in any longer."
The dynamic you two have whre he dodges and you get discouraged (when you speak your mind) WILL happen, but it's something that (when you are ready) you will have to ride out. This happened with my H and I too....however blowing his hidden activity out of the water was the catalyst to me saying...NO MORE! I decided at that point....he was going to hear what I had to say, and that was that. If he wanted to be a big baby and sulk, or avoid me....then fine. He did do that for a while when I started speaking my mind too.....but eventually he stopped. I had to stop avoiding his childish behavior though and do what I had to do anyway (which was not hold stuff in.) When I stated things on my mind, I didn't attack him....I didn't accuse either. I'd just say what was on my mind....eventually, he started responding and we'd talk things out. It did take some time for him to realize though that it was easier to talk to me......than avoid me.
I am usually ridiculously horny the whole 1st and 2nd trimester, not so interested the third and start getting interested about four weeks after delivery. So - I guess I'm weird ( I already knew that actually).
I hear you Gel. I know the whole deal is partly self protection on my part. If I don't reveal myself too much then I control the degree of hurt I experience. Right now if I said what I was thinking it would sound a little like this, "H we haven't had sex for 2 months. For me, that is an unacceptable level of sexual activity in a generally good relationship. It has caused me to question where and how you are getting your sexual needs met. It has caused me to question whether we are in a generally good relationship. H, from your perspective, what is the problem that has caused us not to have sex for 8 weeks and how can we solve it?"
Here's the answer, "UHHH K, don't you remember that we've been sick several of those weeks, been stresed, tired, bringing work home and you are pregnant and fall asleep on the couch every night? Ummm, of course, with all of that we aren't having sex." He would never address the getting needs met elsewhere part.
I can tell you that the above conversation will be useless as every other conversation that is similar has been. Is my only option to say, "H, we haven't had sex for 2 months, it pisses me off and if this the way you want our M to be then I guess I will have to find a fcuk buddy." I feel like it will take this level of verbal agression before he will address any of it but in the meantime it will hurt our ongoing interactions in every area that is working.
I am usually ridiculously horny the whole 1st and 2nd trimester, not so interested the third and start getting interested about four weeks after delivery. So - I guess I'm weird ( I already knew that actually).
NOooo.. not at all. that's what I'm saying: you're "normal". ("we're" normal! LOL!). Its the spouses who aren't. "other ladies get horny when pg...not my W". "other spouses respond this way to "x"...not mine". MIL, who is at least somewhat aware of our sitch , once commented to me, "you know, a glass of wine has been known to put ladies in the mood"...like this was some kind of grand revelation to me. HA! Puts W to sleep quicker than sominex. In fact, any alcohol is pretty much a *guarantee* that there ain't gonna be any tonight. I told her that...kinda let the wind right out of her sails. no easy answers.
Quote: ... It has caused me to question where and how you are getting your sexual needs met...
why would you question that? he doesn't have any; that's the whole problem. Of course, how would I know that? I don't. but that's the way it is here. its the very least of my worries. Hey--another "bright side" point. the glass is half FULL....
Hey there mama, Well I think the first thing you need to do is to get real with yourself in order to lessen the resentment that is piling up with every passing day. What I mean is that *you* are the one who has changed here, not your H. In the beginning you were totally fine with being the one who sustained the sexual R and now want H to change. He is understandably confused and a little lost with having a spouse verbally and nonverbally (which we all know is worse..having someone with every cell in their being silently shout "be different") want him to change. He's digging in his heels and hanging on to the status quo for dear life.
If you are able to recognize that you set up the system just as much as he did, then it helps with the resentment. You can say to yourself, Man did I screw up allowing this to become how we sexually interact...now where do we go from here?
As far as the From Here segment goes, I would say that you are indeed going to have to get angry and in his face, as much as you don't enjoy that. In fact, I think he's waiting until that happens...stalling the inevitable. He has made it clear that he absolutely hates any signs of passive aggression from you, such as emailing or texting him the next morning with an apology that indirectly points a finger at him, so I would scratch that off your list of things to try.
K, I had to get so mean with my H that I'd be quaking inside at the thought of saying what needed to be said. It was awful hurting his feelings. However, it was the only thing that pushed him off dead center. Your H, in his stubborn way, is testing you.
Also, MrHP used to say that if it had gone "too long" he could no longer initiate because he knew I was mad. He avoided that WHOLE SCENE if he knew he'd screwed up. I have no doubt that this is the problem with MrK. He adores you, is devoted to your family life together but he has some serious sexual hangups to work through and he is stallin big time.
Here is what we finally did: We started off with a loose schedule. MrH abhorred the idea of a schedule too (although recently he thinks it's a good idea--that's what Time does, huh) so we agreed to twice per week. That worked for the first week and then I was high and dry the second. So, through clenched teeth, I explained to my dear husband that if we were to meet our agreed-upon schedule not more than 3 days could go by with no sex. This was *much* easier for him to remember...cough up the sex every 3 days or Wife will get crabby. He used to joke (it was not a funny joke, btw) "Oh it must be Day Three.." Grrrrr. But I digress. lol Anyway, I think that you will eventually have to assert your needs and stop letting life get in the way. He would be the first to say something like "marriage just doesn't happen, you have to work at it" so let's put your money where your mouth is, right.
We even negotiated what an acceptable excuse is, and this is where it gets totally squicky and un-romantic but it was necessary, I quickly learned, in order for us both to be on the same page and not let resentment start ruining our marriage again. It was something like this: Sickness is not a get out of sex free card...only flu or a severe cold. Runny nose, nope. Kid stress: No way does that get you out of sex. In your case you might want to make provisions for older kids and things like jail and whatnot. (sheesh, just thinking of things like that gives me a shudder--NOT ready for that, lol) Social engagements: Nope again unless we were getting home at an exhausting hour.
Well, you get the point.
I realize that your H will fight you bad on this idea. But let's face it...your H fights you bad because he knows that you will give in. I think if he ever sensed that he had run up against a brick wall that he'd agree to a lot more than what he does. In your efforts to be a reasonable wife, I think your requests get lost in the midst of his Italian bombastic style. IOW, can you fight fire with fire a little more and see if he responds to it?
Being prone to histrionics myself, I know that when H gets this way with me it shocks me back to a listening mode and that usually helps matters.
Well, sis, I've used up my internet playing time and only managed to ramble to you. I hope that you two are able to hook up soon. Remember that it's nearly impossible for him to initiate at this point since he's SO royally screwed up. I didn't get this, with MrH, until that particular marital habit had faded and his nervousness finally went away. I wouldn't even call it nerves, it was more like severe anxiety. Fwiw, I think these men of ours are boneheads for even getting themselves INTO this situation, lest it seem like I'm taking his side. I'm just trying to offer up an explanation for why he's let it go on this long--one that does not involve anything about your person, because I happen to know how lovely you really are.
Thanks for the reply. Sorry that work got in the way of the internet. I always value your words because there is a lot about your H that is similar to mind - at least the values, relgious background and stuff...
I am on the fence about this:
_________________________________________________________ Well I think the first thing you need to do is to get real with yourself in order to lessen the resentment that is piling up with every passing day. What I mean is that *you* are the one who has changed here, not your H. In the beginning you were totally fine with being the one who sustained the sexual R and now want H to change. He is understandably confused and a little lost with having a spouse verbally and nonverbally (which we all know is worse..having someone with every cell in their being silently shout "be different") want him to change. He's digging in his heels and hanging on to the status quo for dear life. __________________________________________________________
I never changed although perhaps in his eyes I did. He did (in the beginning) actually initiate sexual activity, had ideas etc... But I definately have turned the tables on him lately because I don't come to him for silly little kisses than go nowhere, I don't sleep naked, I don't cuddle up at night, I don't verbally or physically intiate sex and I haven't for two months.
I do agree with what you say about it now having been to long and he "can't" initiate. I imagine that must be how it feels to him. How I am imaged in his mind as this powerful figure that you don't want to prod unless you are ready to take the consequences (dishing out some sex in a less than comfortable situation)I don't know. It would be so easy to keep me happy and I have told him how time and time again.
I wish he would agree to a schedule. ANY schedule would be a start. He gets MAD if I bring up the subject.
At this point I have trouble initiating as well because it feels a little like prostituting myself. If I open my legs and heart to someone that has been so cavalier with it as H has what does that say about me and my level of desperation?
Well, I guess my anger comes across loud and clear as I'm sure it does to my H even if I am friendly and normal he probably feels it. He's pretty intuitive.
We had an exhausting weekend. Saturday and Sunday were full of family activity - DS15's birthday party was on Saturday and the kids (6 of them plus DS) went to Rock and Bowl with H (9pm to 1am) and then came home and played videos and crud until morning. Sunday was our family Christmas with my Mom and Dad since they will be out of town this year. Besides that I cooked all Saturday and Sunday for work gifts. For the last week and 1/2 H has been limping around with a pulled hip/groin muscle kind of issue. As we fell into bed exhausted the last three nights I just wanted to smack him and say, "How hard is it to say, honey I've been missing you and I know we are both exhausted but let's make a sex date for Monday." Something. Anything. Time goes by and I just get more pregnant and more convinced that H will never initiate sex. I wonder what he is thinking will be the probable outcome of that plan?
I should say that (as usual) I feel like an ingrate. H absolutely worked his fanny off all weekend on family stuff. He is a good man and I DO know that.
I just re-read the types. Oh wow - I think I get it. I didn't read the types with H in mind the first run through. Now, I think I get it. I think I am a 2 "the helper" and H is a four "the individualist". There is an inherent conflict there. What do you think? (Remember he is an ENTJ but he has so many reclusive behaviors that I think the "E" is self created rather than an actual preference) - maybe?
It does help to read that site or to get a good enneagram book (the one by Riso and Hudson is good)-- the best thing is get your "subject" to take the quiz.
The thing that we don't talk about much here is the "wings," i.e., the numbers on either side of you influence you a lot. So you have a 4 with a strong 3 wing or a 4 with a strong 5 wing. The way we talk about it here is kind of superficial.
Having said that, it's entirely possible that you're a 2, karen. Two's tend to get into the "helping" professions... you might be a 2 with a strong 3 wing or a 3 with a strong 2 wing.
As for your H being a 4, the 4 is variously labeled the Artist, the Romantic, or the Individualist. The core issue of the 4 is that they feel they are cut off from the source of life. They feel broken, isolated, different, alone.
This is not like horoscopes where there are good pairings and bad pairings. Each type can pair with each other type and it can be good or bad depending on how developed each person is. I think one of the sites we've looked at described what different pairings are like. I also have a book on that, but it's at my house and I'm at my bf's house right now. I'll post some stuff from it the next time I'm out there.
To address the comment Chuck made on the other thread, these types, whether it be the enneagram or the Myers-Briggs are NOT all that you ARE. So trying to grow beyond these lables is not a violation of "to thine own self be true." No one person can be shoved into a box with a label slapped on it. These typologies represent limited ways that you learned to cope with what life threw at you in your earliest life. These are patterns of learned behaviors. That's why Jung suggests that if all of your life you've relied on your powers of rational/logical analysis, then in your later life, try to develop your feeling abilities, your intuition. It makes you a well-rounded person.
All of these systems are tools. They aren't set in concrete. They help us to understand our own quirks and those of the people we live and work with.
Thanks. I really do understand the appropriate interpretation of various personality test tools and this part is right on:
_________________________________________________________ This is not like horoscopes where there are good pairings and bad pairings. Each type can pair with each other type and it can be good or bad depending on how developed each person is. I think one of the sites we've looked at described what different pairings are like. I also have a book on that, but it's at my house and I'm at my bf's house right now. I'll post some stuff from it the next time I'm out there.
To address the comment Chuck made on the other thread, these types, whether it be the enneagram or the Myers-Briggs are NOT all that you ARE. So trying to grow beyond these lables is not a violation of "to thine own self be true." No one person can be shoved into a box with a label slapped on it. These typologies represent limited ways that you learned to cope with what life threw at you in your earliest life. These are patterns of learned behaviors. That's why Jung suggests that if all of your life you've relied on your powers of rational/logical analysis, then in your later life, try to develop your feeling abilities, your intuition. It makes you a well-rounded person.
All of these systems are tools. They aren't set in concrete. They help us to understand our own quirks and those of the people we live and work with. __________________________________________________________
My point was merely that in my own involvement with H I have found that our core missions in life seem to conflict. Strangely, H prides himself on his extroversion and considers my milder form of extroversion to be nearly reclusive whereas I consider his to seem almost forced. The helper in me has always been interested in helping anyone in my life serve their core mission but particularly the core man in my life and this resonates well with H right up until he feels he is failing at something and when that happens the less well functioning aspects of the "Individualist" seem to decribe H pretty well. He isn't so "artistic" as his creative and entrepreneurial. Anyway, this kind of mental masturbation is entertaining but doesn't really guide my iteractions with H except to this extent. I have consciously through my life tried to subvert some of the less useful parts of being a "helper" sort - the co-dependence, the tedency to overidentify, the tendency to lose myself in someone else's life, the tendency to manipulatively try to get someone to "do what's best" for them. In doing so, I have consciously sought my own mission, I have consciously sought to enhance my boundaries and I have enhanced other sides of my personality. The whole thing collapses when it comes to H.
"2 months? hey, I can do 2 months standing on my head". 
, once commented to me, "you know, a glass of wine has been known to put ladies in the mood"...like this was some kind of grand revelation to me. HA! Puts W to sleep quicker than sominex. In fact, any alcohol is pretty much a *guarantee* that there ain't gonna be any tonight. I told her that...kinda let the wind right out of her sails. 
