Just getting started piecing it back

[toughlover]

said on more than one occasion that I would NOT TAKE THE LAST YEAR BACK EVEN IF I COULD.

Same here!

Here are some things (in hopes of encouraging you that this stuff can work) that have made it great for me/us:

At the very least, the sheer agony of it all has made me damn sure I don't ever want to be in that kind of position again no matter what.

Also, and my W and I discussed this, we feel like we've gone through/are going through hell and are paying/have paid such a high price to make whatever progress we've made that it would be very difficult for either of us to do something too foolish to throw it all away. Now, I've done some foolish things in conversing with her, and I've taken some risks and called her on some things that may not be the best DB'ing in the world, but there you have it.

Probably what helped me the most in terms of pragmatic stuff was just getting my own act together. It made a difference for my W but by the time it did, it didn't matter so much.

My W's behavior repulsed me. And that got even worse for me as I got stronger as an individual. And what THAT did was make me realize that if she was going to continue with the nonsense, lying, cheating, etc., if she wanted someone like that instead of me, then I didn't want her anymore anyway. But that was because I knew the kind of person I'd become/was becoming. I knew I was worth it even if it wasn't what she wanted. And that was the turning point.

What it did was set me heading off in my own direction to become the best I could be regardless of what she did. That included doing things for her around the house, but not to get something in return. Rather, I decided what kind of husband and father I wanted to be, what my actions would be, and then just did them. The rest of the time, I GAL.

She ended up noticing in a big way, and it made a HUGE difference in how she responded to me, because at that point I was loving her out of my strength, and she saw I had something to offer, not out of my need or hurt or anything. So we could truly start sharing with each other and complementing each other's strengths and weaknesses rather than sucking the life out of each other.

Now, our faith in God had a huge role in this as well. But the principles are the same. Once I detached and did that, all of a sudden I was stronger than she was and she knew it. And she came to rely on my strength. Life became an adventure (for us, again, it had a lot to do with God) that we could embark on together, and that was important.

I'm not going to say it's been perfect since then. It hasn't. I've still made mistakes here and there. Things aren't as we want them. But they're better than we've ever had, and getting better every day. It's better than it would have been with her OM because our family is together and our children are doing great.

I think that if there's any hope at all, you simply need to do what GH said, do the DB stuff, and in doing so your light will shine and will help your wife find her way back to you and your new journey together, cause the old one is gone.

[sofaraway]

Hey jersting, i came by to check on you, but after reading the last few days of your thread realize that you are in great hands here. All these folks on here are giving you incredible advice. I know personally that GH can be unbelievably helpful and knows what he is talking about. I alsoi gain a lot of perspective out of Xue and Sven when I read there posts as well. The only thing that struck me on your threads was this, you asked if you jumped into pieceing too soon? No my friend you didnt, look at what advice you are recieving in here, there was a reason why you moved over and it may be to get this incredible insight that you just dont get over in Newcomers pal. You are in the right forum for what you need to hear right now, God has a funny way of taking care of all that for us.

Take care of yourself and let me know if you need anything....

Ian

[jersting]

Thanks Ian. I am glad you suggested that I move to the piecing forum and get ahold of GH. I notice that people follow GH and I am getting alot of support from others here also as you can see. Things are going good for me. As for the M, I am not real sure where I stand with that, but for me I feel good and I am learning as I go. I will no longer take these bad days as just to get through them, but to learn from them. My w calls me every night and I can tell she wants to be with me but is scared that something may go wrong. So I am living my life and not hers and let happen what is going to happen.

[S_O_T_S]

Hi jersting. Just wanted to reply to one comment you made in the last post.

My w calls me every night and I can tell she wants to be with me but is scared that something may go wrong.

I think this statement is really critical. If this is true, and you beleive it, then I see things like this:

It is now your job to make sure that she feels safe and comfortable with coming back to you. You have to stay the course with your changes. Continue to show her strength. Be her rock. Make coming back the more attractive option to her.

Stay strong and let her find her way back to you.

Take care,

[grasshopper]

Geezus people, I hate people making me sound like a diety or something, lol.

In any event, you sound GREAT Jersting. Realize that not all my advice, Sven's or Xue's is going to apply but if you think about all of it, REALLY think about it, you can't help but learn through the exercise. You are building relationship muscles as sure a going to the gym builds real ones.

The bottom line, as always, is that you now understand how little real CONTROL you have over her yet, on the flip-side, just how much INFLUENCE your actions/words may have.

Keep that focus on you, let the little things slide off...and remember, they're ALL little...and just keep going/growing.

I hate to admit it, and this HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW I THINK YOUR SITCH IS GOING, but for many of us, this ends up being much more about who we become as individuals, forged by the fire of a near-relationship fatality (or one that's DOA) as it is about how well we do in saving our marriages.

If you truly do your best at trying to let go, grow yourself, and BE the man you want to be, you have done all you can. Don't fret over the rest of it.

GH

[PArob]

Geezus people, I hate people making me sound like a diety or something, lol.

OK, how about this.....that GH, he's an alright guy with some ok advice here and there :-P

I hate to admit it, and this HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW I THINK YOUR SITCH IS GOING, but for many of us, this ends up being much more about who we become as individuals, forged by the fire of a near-relationship fatality (or one that's DOA) as it is about how well we do in saving our marriages.

Funny you should mention this GH, because it really kind of sums up the essence of what we are doing here. Early on in our sitchs, I remember us trying to decipher this "mystery", so to speak, of what this was all about. Basically, I thinked you've summed up very well...its about growing as an individual, learning to love unconditionally, and recognizing that we can't control others and their actions, but our actions, thoughts, etc. can influence those around us.

Something I might add to this string of advice for Jersting, and I think it was mentioned above, the key is really to learn the line between wanting your relationship with your wife and NEEDING it. It can be a thin line, but there is a huge amount of difference. Being a puppy dog will NOT help you grow or make your relationship stronger. Think about it, when you were courting your wife...did you act that way? Probably not!

I think it was OT who used to liken it to the annoying co-worker in the office who seems desperate for a friend. Sure, you might feel sorry for them, maybe you even say hi to them every once in a while, but overall, you usually try to avoid them.

Well, that's my .02 worth.

[jersting]

I'm looking for some quick advice.
My wife came over last night to pick up kids. She left her car running and the kids did not want to leave when she came in to pick them up. She went out and shut her car off. When she came back in I asked if she was hungry and she said no. I asked if she had eaten and she said no. I warmed up some left overs that I made for the kids the night before and told her that it wasn't as good as she makes, but it is eatible. When she sat down to eat it I went in and played with the kids. When they left she gave me a hug and kiss on the cheek. She called me at 10:30 last night and I did not answer. I did not return call because she left no message. Today when she came to pick up the kids she was looking miserable. She asked me how I was doing and I replied with GOOD. I asked how she was and she just shrugged her shoulders. I asked what was wrong and she said nothing. I said I replied to your e-mail today and she said ya, 2 hours later. As she was turning to walk out of my office I asked again what was wrong and she said I get the point. I followed her to her car and asked what point that was and she said that "I know you don't want to talk to me". I asked how she figured and she said because I won't answer when she calls. I said that I didn't know she called until 12:30 and she wouldn't have wanted me to call that late. She just gave me a dirty look and drove off. What I need advice with is do I call her tonight or not. I really don't understand what she expects of me right now. I am trying to be supportive, but I am also trying to not get myself wrapped up in her games. My instincts say not to call and wait for her, but I don't want to give her reason to keep walking away either. What should I do?

[toughlover]

Well take this with a grain of salt cause I don't know jack about this but it sounds to me like she's feeling a bit slighted or edgy when she can't get you whenever she wants you, and is now playing games with you to make sure you're still on the hook.

Sounds to me like instead of offering explanations or justifications why you didn't call, you could just respond with "Sorry, didn't notice, was wrapped up in something else," etc. Shrug it off, blow it off, let her walk away and, like many here have said, let her stew in it a bit cause the only way to win this game is to refuse to play it.

She wants you to follow her out to her car and justify...I don't know if that's a good sign or not, but it sounds like she's feeling the loss a little to me. That's probably a good thing.

[grasshopper]

Jersting,

I agree, it sounds like she's noticed that you're not at her beckon call anymore and it pisses her off. I don't know if she's doing anything conscious to "keep you on the hook" but she sure as hell is doing it.

The trick here can be found in threads like Franks and some of the others who got REALLY good at deflecting this anger and resentment when they decided to not play the reindeer games with their wives.

It is important that you don't try to justify yourself but at the same time, I also think it's important for you to remain calm, nice and seemingly eager to talk to her.

The idea is that you DO want to talk to her, and you DO want to be there for her, but just like her, you have a life and there WILL be times when you are not available. If she'd like to be polite, like she would with anyone else, and leave a message, you'll get back to her as soon as possible.

She has to understand that this is not so much a reaction to what she's done/doing but you just getting back to a condition where you're not living life for someone else and this is just a part of that. You do that by, again, making sure that you don't come across as bitter, seeming to say "Well, f--k you honey, if you can have an affair, I don't have to answer the phone...". You just want to present a calm, collected (NOT aloof or condescending) demeanor and really kill her with kindness.

She will likely NOT respond with kindness, but rather more anger and such, until she finally gets that you ARE still there for her, and probably DO still love her but that you are not going to be walked on anymore.

This SHOULD be a good thing in your sitch in the long term but for now, it could get rocky.

I never really did too well with this kind of thing which is why I directed you to Frank. He was really good at maintaining his positive mood and outlook while his wife tried to project her anger onto him.

So, the key is to be unavailable (because you really ARE unavailable) but not be an a$$. Never be an a$$ about it. This is not about revenge, it's about self-discovery, GAL and growth.

GH

[jersting]

I called wife after work last night to return her call from the night before. That was probably a mistake. It seems this game she is playing is no matter what I do it is wrong. She was in a bad mood and told me so. She said she didn't want to talk to me then and I said ok talk to you later. This made her even madder. She would not let me hang up and started telling me that I am never there when she wants to open up to me. (Talking about the 1 call I did not take the night before.) Then she got somewhat rude and said "I am going to go now, bye". I said bye and that was it. A couple hours later she called me again and was still very rude with me. I asked her what the problem was and she said she was in a pissy mood and was not happy with life right now. I asked what she could do to make things better for herself and she replied with "I don't know". (I get alot of these.) She was upset that she was going to have to throw a b-day party for D10 on the 16th and didn't know if she was going to be able to buy Christmas presents or anything because she didn't have enough money. (she has been shoping every weekend since the seperation and she bought new living room furniture and paid for it on credit card). She realy has a spending problem. Been in credit card debt problems several times throughout our marriage. After about the second time about 5 years in the marriage, I closed all joint accounts and she got new cards just in her name. I bailed her out on these twice in the last 8 years. (big debt)
She told me that she didn't know if she could make it through b-day party and Christmas without me and the rest of life for that matter and she was mad about this. I asked if she wanted to trade places with me and she said "no I won't leave my kids. I said well if you just want me to pay for things for the next few weeks, I can't afford to because as she well knows, I am paying for all of the bills at her house, all of my bills, fixing up a junk old house and giving her 100 week in support over and above all of the other stuff I am paying. (this is all court order). She said she didn't want me to pay for things, she just wanted to tell me what was on her mind. I talked with her and listend to her concerns and kept my mouth shut on trying to give her solutions and she just seemed to get mad more and more as we talked. She seemed very rude to me and I told her so. She didn't make any appologies for being rude, she just said she was tired and ready to go to sleep. I said I would let her go and we would talk later. She agreed and we hung up. I thought of something I had been meaning to ask her about 20 min. later and I tried to call back and she was on the phone. This made me nuts because she said she was going to sleep and here she was on the phone. I thought I had controll of myself in these sitchs, but apparently I don't yet. I waited a few minutes, called back and she was still on phone. Waited about 10 minutes and called back she was still on phone, left message that I just didn't know what to say and thought it was wrong of her to be this way with me. 15 minutes later I called back and she had shut off her phone. I called the home phone just brewing at this time and asked why she had been that way and she said she just didn't want to talk to me. I said "you just don't care for me at all do you". Her reply..."your way off on that one." I said you probably don't want me to come over and talk and she replied no not tonight. I said ok sleep well, talk to you later and we hung up. I don't know why I said all of this, I guess just to let every one know some of the details of what is happening with me. If any one wants to pull a 2x4 out on me or just chime in with their thoughts on things, I will be happy to read it.