EA, being "friends" with OW, and Boundaries Part 2

[oldtimer]

Nikki,

That is great that your next session is so soon. It is probably the best place to get clear about the details. Any MC worth her/his salt will try to make sure that you aren't walked all over as the vulnerable party. Also, if you bring up wanting to make sure you understand the legal implications before you settle on anything, the MC won't let H get away with trying to make you feel guilty about protecting yourself.

What is your MC strategy? There seems to be little point in arguing about whether to S. (BTW, if you embrace the S as something that could be good for YOU too--which is true--you might just find that H gets the space to question the wisdom of his decision. Unlikely, to change things, but he will at least start to see that he has some doubts himself...)

Perhaps just go in there with the agenda of working out arrangements that are reasonably fair to both of you? Also, I'd really urge you to set some boundaries about how and when you talk about the details. It might be best to work out all the logistics with the MC present.

One final thought -- it will be tempting to hang on to the connectors, those things that force contact. Like, for instance, yardwork or getting mail or sharing a car, etc... Insisting on maintaining these connectors will not be good for anyone. You will each know how to contact the other if you want to. Cut the apron strings FOR YOUR OWN mental health.

Best,
Oldtimer

[whatisis]

Thanks OT, the fact that she's going away with OP also makes this poem a little much! I love it and I love her but I'll try for something a little less smothering...like a pillow over her face OK, that wasn't funny, I know. Maybe next year ( the poem not the pillow)? It's really tough trying to figure out what would be meaningful and not too overwhelming. Hey, maybe I could go away for the weekend and give her a break from me, that might be the perfect Anniversary gift

[oldtimer]

P.P.S. I meant to add something to this: " If you must have expectations, have the expectation that H will NOT be there for you emotionally, physically, handymanwise, yardmanwise, etc... "

What I meant to add was: "When you aren't expecting those H-ly things NOR feeling entitled to them, then you give him a chance to be truly generous and yourself a chance to truly appreciate his more giving/loving action IF they occur. And, of course, him being nice on one occassion does not give you permission to revive unjustified expectations or a false sense of entitlement. The key here is to really give him a chance to give freely, for he might just choose to do so if he has the freedom and space to figure out the HE wants to for his own reasons, rather than out of guilt, etc..."

[oldtimer]

whatisis,

sounds like a great idea, see my post about it on your thread.

best,
Oldtimer

[inspiredjulie]

Hi Nikki-

I've just caught up on your thread and I'm sorry it's come to this. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

About the house. I may be stubborn, but I have a hard time w/ you moving out. H shouldn't be able to carry on as though the only thing changing is you leaving. He needs to feel the pain/pinch of this as much as you do. Stand firm on staying in the house.

Good luck. I'll keep checking in on you. You sound so clear-headed. I know you'll be ok. You matter. Julie

[kml]

Some practical thoughts:

- check with an attorney to see if it helps your case to stay in the house. If it does, stay.

- one reason to stay in the house - if you get back together, you won't have to wonder if OW has been there.

- one reason to leave - the "high" of setting up a new apartment, buying new furniture, etc. seems to encourage to WAS if they're the one leaving

- remind your H that if you are separated, and he is dating others, then you will be too. (Even though you won't, he doesn't have to know that). It's amazing how they think they can "try out" being single, but expect that you'll just sit there and wait. While my h was planning to move out, he'd cry at the thought of me with another man!!!

- my H put a deposit on an apartment, but never moved out. Some things I think were a factor:
I started going out one night a week with my girlfriend.
Although we never did anything but see a movie or get a drink, I made it all sound a little more mysterious to H, and told him we were planning to go dancing the next week.

I ordered a new bed. I told H that if he was leaving, that he had to take the bed, because I could not sleep alone in that bed that we had slept together in for so long. I ordered a bigger mattress - we're average size, and always slept snuggled up in a full. I ordered a queen - the unspoken message - that i might end up with a BIGGER guy in the future, and needed a bed that would accomodate all comers! I arranged for the bed to be delivered right before H was supposed to move out, so he wouldn't "contaminate' it, so to speak. If he had moved out, I would have put sexy new bedlinens on it and remodeled the bedroom to be more inviting (to WHOM, he would think??).

During this time, after the initial tears, I acted As If he was leaving and I was moving forward with my life. I didn't plead. I remained clear that it wasn't what I wanted, but that I wouldn't stand in his way. I avoided R convos as much as possible. I continued to DB by being well-dressed, cheerful, sexy, and speaking his love languages of quality time and gifts. I kept my PMA high but my expectations rock bottom. I dropped the rope. It's like a tug-of-war - when you stop pulling on the rope, he's gonna fall over. This guy doesn't really want to move out - he just wants that dopamine high. He's already shown signs of possessiveness - come home lkate one night, dress up cute whwen you go out, let him start to wonder if he could lose you.

Ellie

[NikB]

Thanks Oldtimer. I think he was giving freely last night - probably some out of guilt, but some was just giving to give. I will appreciate those moments more.

[NikB]

Oops I hit submit too soon, sorry!

Oldtimer – yes, I guess that is soon. It feels SO far away but it’s only 2 days. Anyone can get through 2 days right?? I wish I wasn’t worried about money, part of me wants to go to a hotel or something until then.

For the MC – no, I definitely don’t plan to try and talk him out of the S. I agree that it might be good for me, too, in part to prove to myself that my changes are real and that I can continue to make positive changes no matter what. I’d rather not do it but I can see the positive side. In fact as soon as he said it, I told him that I had been considering the same thing. I am becoming exhausted with feeling I have to be “perfect” all the time. I nearly had a panic attack the other night when I got a nosebleed and H was due home, I was afraid he’d see me bleeding. How silly is that?? I can’t live like that.

I am using all the posts here to develop my “reasons I should stay” and “reasons I should be the one to move” lists. My strategy for MC is definitely going to be to talk logistics and what’s fair. I also need to know if it even makes sense to set some kind of rules. I mean, if H still wants to ‘date’ me (and yes, I know turn him down sometimes!) and possibly be physical sometimes – well, I need reasonable assurances I’m not going to be exposed to anything, if you know what I mean.

When I met one on one with the MC she told me that she thinks H is going to walk out, get burned, and come back to me. She told him almost the same thing in a more guy-friendly way – she thinks he’s going to walk out, “sow his oats,” and come back. When he told me that last night I said as jokingly as I could “Yeah, that is if I still want you once I’m transformed into a new woman!” I’m doubting if I should’ve said it but don’t feel it was particularly harmful.

You are absolutely right that I am already seeking “connectors” and I hadn’t caught it. Thanks for pointing that out. Actually I see him doing it too, now that you mention it.. talking about reasons we’d have to see each other. There will be certain things that really will require contact but I need to think carefully about what those are and what are just excuses.

[NikB]

Thanks Julie. That’s exactly how I felt too – that if he wants to walk away from our life, he needs to really walk away from it. I am doing a detailed list of pros/cons for my decision and will see what happens with the MC. Thank you for the constant reminders that I matter. I needed to hear it today more than ever.

KML/Ellie – thank you for those additions to my stay or go list. Back in the “trying to be friends with OW” days, I was helping her check out houses and duplexes to rent. I did get a bit of a rush from it. Even if H is the one to go, I will set aside money to do some inexpensive re-decorating so I can get a bit of that high myself. We JUST bought a new bed a few months ago (sigh) but I kind of like the new bed idea too. We’ve always sprawled out in this huge king sized bed so I might take the opposite approach – get a smaller bed for the new smaller me and whoever I’ll be snuggled up with (not really but you know, the unspoken message).

H has actually been trying to get me to go out with other guys for awhile now. Early on I tried DB’ing a bit by telling him after a guy tried to buy me a drink. In the past he’d get a funny smile when I told him something like that and talk about being “his” but thanks to the other guy for boosting my ego. It used to make him kinda “want” me more. This time he said “You should’ve let him, he might’ve been a good guy.” Eek. Added that one to the "not working" list right away! Last night he told me it’s because he was hoping I’d find another guy and make this easier on all of us.

Thank you for your tips on what you did after the tears subsided. I knew these and had seen them before but it helps to see it again. I need to drum this all into my head. I need to find some friends to go out with too. Or maybe just go out by myself – it’s been years since I’ve done it but it can be empowering. Wish I’d talked him into the love languages thing before we got to this point so I knew what his are (no, I won’t try now!).

One thing I suggested is we each write a vision of our ideal marriage. Not necessarily to each other, just what our ideal looks like. To help us in the future if not now… and he actually really liked the idea. I was surprised. He wants to ask the MC to help us do it. He even said we should each write our own separately and compare them to see how close they are.

On another note… I am trying not to get irritated at all the money we’ve spent in the last year when he KNEW he was planning to leave. We had a shed built, bought a new bed, new TV, wall unit, got locked into a year contract on our expensive cable, did some remodeling to the house, had insulation put in… I mean, it’s been a lot of money we’ve been saving up for a long time to do stuff to the house! And every time we’ve bought something we gave the old “whatever it was” away to someone. So it’s not like we now have a spare TV, bed, etc. Oh, and with his encouragement I bought a new car and have a car payment for the first time in 4 years that I didn’t need to have. I wish we still had it in the bank to help us through this but oh well….what’s done is done. It’s just aggravating.

Hey this thread will probably lock up soon and I think I need a new title for the new me. Anyone got good ideas?

[whatisis]

NikkiB, Just a quick apology for my stuff on your thread. Posting error! Too many threads, not enough time