EA, being "friends" with OW, and Boundaries Part 2

[*KS*Chick*]

Nikki,

Just wanted you to know I'm praying for you. I don't have any good advice - just prayers.

[NikB]

Thanks Stilltryin and Utterly Alone. I am still pretty devastated today. I knew this might be coming and thought I was mentally prepared but obviously not. I have GOT to pull myself together, quit crying, and get a smile back on my face and I don't know how.

H is almost making it harder. Following me around, hugging me, telling me he'll always care about me and I'll always be in his life. Wanted me to go to bed at the same time w/him last night so he could hold me til I fell asleep. This morning I wasn't crying and tried to smile but he kept looking at me and finally said "You look so sad, I'm sorry." ugh.

Any advice on whether I should give in and leave, or make him be the one to go? We both love our house and have put so much into it. It would be physically and financially pretty difficult for me to stay, but I don't want to make this TOO easy on my H either. If he wants to do this, should I make him do all the work (i.e. moving etc.) too??

Then again, I don't want him to come back just because he wants to be back in our house - I want him to come back because he wants to come back to ME. I hate moving though.

I do know if I go I will NOT go anywhere I can't take my dog. That's about all I know right now.

I took down all our family and wedding photos this morning. I couldn't look at them anymore.

[*KS*Chick*]

Thanks Stilltryin and Utterly Alone. I am still pretty devastated today. I knew this might be coming and thought I was mentally prepared but obviously not. I have GOT to pull myself together, quit crying, and get a smile back on my face and I don't know how.

H is almost making it harder. Following me around, hugging me, telling me he'll always care about me and I'll always be in his life. Wanted me to go to bed at the same time w/him last night so he could hold me til I fell asleep. This morning I wasn't crying and tried to smile but he kept looking at me and finally said "You look so sad, I'm sorry." ugh.

Any advice on whether I should give in and leave, or make him be the one to go? We both love our house and have put so much into it. It would be physically and financially pretty difficult for me to stay, but I don't want to make this TOO easy on my H either. If he wants to do this, should I make him do all the work (i.e. moving etc.) too??

Then again, I don't want him to come back just because he wants to be back in our house - I want him to come back because he wants to come back to ME. I hate moving though.

I do know if I go I will NOT go anywhere I can't take my dog. That's about all I know right now.

I took down all our family and wedding photos this morning. I couldn't look at them anymore.

Personally I don't think it's fair for him to stay. But if you can't do it financially, I'd suggest selling it and splitting it. See what that does to him?!

[S.T. _I Made It!]

Hon, I did the same thing with the pictures, and I think it was a horrible idea. I did that before the DB and a really good smart friend said it was bad too.

Please put the pictures back if you can. My two year old is screaming right now so I can't think right, but I will try to give you a good reason later.

Listen, what your H is doing, is much more affectionate and compassionate than what my H did with me. He still cares deeply for you, he just thinks he isn't IN love with you anymore, and that OW helped him see that. But guess what. Let's just pretend that he thought he was IN love with the OW, like my H was. let's just say he left me and married her. Well, eventually those strong feelings he had are gonna be gone and at that time he will have to decide, Do I still love this woman? What he is feeling right now, is just a feeling. Love is a choice. It is choosing to make a commitment to someone and to give yourself to that someone.

However, if you start to sulk and feel sorry foryourself and become depressed, then you will loose everything that you have achieved so far. It takes time for him to see your changes and accomplishments and that yes, I may have lost that feeling for you, but I can see that it can come back. Feelings come and go.

okay, sorry I just went off about that. I wanted my H to figure that out so bad... I'm not sure that he really did, but during my DBing and GALing he figured out that he really did want me again and the person I was before wasn't really me. And that's just what your H is going to find out about you. It just takes a lot of time.

[NikB]

Thanks Utterly Alone and Stilltryin for your posts!

Stilltryin – you are so good at helping me, thank you!!! How is it that we all manage to make such similar mistakes? You are right about the photos and how great H is treating me, and I need to be grateful for it. I looked at the blank wall as I left the house and it didn’t feel right, but I didn’t have time to put them back up. I won’t be able to fix it before H gets home, so I left him a (pretty upbeat) voicemail letting him know not to freak out when he walks in, it’s just one of my “projects” this week.

H knows that I’ve been meaning to update the wall since most of the pics are outdated, and I’ve wanted to get matching frames anyway. I realize that the timing is bad and it might seem like pressure, but I think I can pull it off. For the wedding ones I’ll say I decided to take everything down at once so I could dust and clean the walls.

I have managed to snap out of the crying and I’m now smiling some today. I am hoping by tonight I can get myself into a good mood. I know I need to not be sulky, crying, depressed etc., it’s just the HOW of it that I’m having trouble with. If I start to feel upset tonight I plan to jump on the treadmill.

Utterly Alone – I ran the numbers again and it looks like I can afford to stay in the house and pay all the bills. I’ll have to reduce what I put into savings each month but I’d be OK. Actually if we refi, the payment for the house (even with water/sewer etc.) would be cheaper than me renting a safe, comfortable place where I can have my dog. H has a lot of family and friends he can stay with if he doesn’t want to rent a place, too. I really don't have that option.

Physically it will be TOUGH for me, for sure. I’m going to propose that we do something to fix the gate so I can open it, drain the pool for now, and figure out something for the mowing and “handyman” stuff. I’m hoping that we can work something out where H does the mowing, or pays someone… we’ll see. And maybe once a month he can help with the "fix it" stuff I can’t do. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask him to do that much while he’s thinking things through but we’ll see. Maybe I can even promise to be gone when he does. We'll have to work something out w/the garage too.

If he ends up staying with the one friend he’s talked to, his expenses will be practically nothing, so in that case I’d ask for help with the house payment and a mowing service.

<sigh>… practically speaking it probably makes more sense for me to move to an apartment or duplex with maintenance included, but it just doesn’t feel right.

I can’t decide if I should try to talk to him about all the logistics tonight or wait for the MC session. See how we’re both feeling, I guess.

Any other thoughts are welcome of course, there’s a lot to think through here!

Sending out positive thoughts to all of you!!

[oldtimer]

Nikki,

(1) Lying is not a way to find a better R. Simply tell him that you were hurt and it was painful to see the pictures. Taking down wedding pictures is perfectly appropriate. Nothing wrong with turning it into a positive like you said by taking advantage of the fact that the pictures are down to take care of a project.

(2) H wants a separation to see how it feels NOT to be married to you. H does not want to be M to you right now, he does NOT want a H/W R with you right now. Whether or not you separate physically, you need to quit treating him like your H and quit ASSuming he will be happy to act like an H. If you cannot live in your house independently, then you need to find some other way to get your needs met than by relying on H to do H-ly things, or you need to find a different living situation. If you must have expectations, have the expectation that H will NOT be there for you emotionally, physically, handymanwise, yardmanwise, etc...

(3) It is not healthy to seek comfort for the pain of S from the spouse who wants to S. GAL, and get a support system.

(4) Don't bury your head in the sand. You don't know how the S will turn out. It may hurt you with respect to any divorce proceedings if you are the one to move out. Also, I'm not sure why it is that H seems to have more operating money than you. Is there some reason why funds are not being shared more equitably for this separation?

(5) Say it to yourself over and over -- right now H is NOT my husband. I am NOT entitled to his love or concern or helpfulness. Such things are freely given gifts between people, I don't have a right to them.

(6) With respect to the S, get very clear about the business end of it. Any attempt to use it as an emotional tool will backfire. By all means do not try to spite H in some way... At the same time, make sure to take care of yourself. Do not be afraid to stand up for yourself. It is really OK if he gets mad. Your job is not to make an S go exactly how he wants it. Your job is to make your life work for you.

Best,
Oldtimer

[oldtimer]

P.S. Having done the "wait to S until after the holidays" thing, I cannot recommend it. In my case, I was afraid to let go and he wanted to feel like a good guy. It was desperation on my end and pity leading to resentment on his end. It was one of the very worst periods of the whole thing and I certainly would not do it again.

[*KS*Chick*]

when is your next session?

[NikB]

Hi Oldtimer,

Thanks for the hard to hear but very true comments. I appreciate it. I am not doing that well with detaching and I know I really need to.

1. Good point about the pictures. If he brings it up tonight I’ll talk to him more about it (if not, I’m leaving it alone for now to avoid digging a deeper hole).

2. I know you’re right about the reasons for the separation. He says he still wants to treat me like a friend and even “date” me while we’re separated. As for the house, I can live there independently for the most part, but I will need help to make a few changes to make it possible (i.e. the gate, pool). I can’t mow the lawn or do all of the handyman stuff but I could hire someone for those things. And you’re right, I should stop hoping H will do them or even offer. For the initial changes I’ll need help to make them and I don’t know anyone else to ask, but longer term I will look for that help from other places.

3. Totally agreed! Even last night I wasn’t seeking support from him – he was going out of his way to offer it. I am working on the GAL …slowly but surely. I know that’s the true key to getting through this.

4. H makes more than I do, and we’ve always kept our money separate and handled our finances pretty independently. He’s much more of a spender and I’m a saver. He likes having the savings just not DOING the actual saving – so he pays the house payment and most of our entertainment/fun stuff when we go out. I pay the other bills and set aside the savings. We never combined it into “our” money. Maybe it should’ve been a sign huh? Although actually we are both pretty happy with how we’ve handled the finances. I agree it might hurt any D proceedings if I move out too. So far the way he’s acting I think anything we do would be amicable but I don’t really know.

5. Ouch… but you’re right. I need to repeat this to myself (daily I think).

6. Thanks. I really don’t have any desire to spite H. I want us both to be happy in the long run, but one of us is going to be very unhappy with the house decision during the separation. We both want to stay in the house and we both have some really good reasons for it. The more I think about it, this subject’s probably best to discuss with the MC.

About your PS… yeah, I’m not entirely sure about this whole holidays thing either. It was H who suggested it but I kept thinking “Why bother” (didn’t say it though). I don’t know if he’s just trying to preserve my feelings or if he really wants to wait. He may also be trying not to tell the extended family in case things work out. His dad’s famous for doing that - his last marriage was over for almost a year before anyone even knew. I’m doing my best to “act as if” and enjoy what I can, but inside I’ve already kinda written off the holidays this year as most likely being one big giant blur.

Although, at this point just the time to find somewhere to live, pack, and move would probably take us through the holidays anyway. Especially if it’s me who goes because I have a lot of stuff to go through that I wouldn’t want to leave behind. He’s probably more willing to leave stuff there and go stay with a friend or something, then come get it later.

[NikB]

Hi UA - our next session is Thursday night. H was supposed to wait and have the MC talk to me about it but he said he couldn't wait that long to tell me, it was eating at him too much.