Thanks for the reply and help Cobra. I agree with much of what you wrote.
The Thanksgiving situation has been resolved. A family member said it would look like BB was being anti-social if she didn't go to our son-in-law's parents house. BB called the host and asked what we should bring.
I didn't say much but "good" once. I think it is a situation where I don't want to be accidentally putting my foot in my mouth.
I guess, I didn't bring up the anti-social topic but said I thought it was the proper thing to do was go to the TG invite.
Cobra, I am painting window frames and wished I had more time to reply to some of your ideas but it's too nice outside not to do outdoor work that needs to be finished soon.
When I read this today, I thought of many of us... but decided to post it on Lou's thread.
Quote: From the book The Language of Letting Go.
Accepting Love
Many of us have worked too hard to make relationships work; sometimes those relationships didn't have a chance because the other person was unavailable or refused to participate.
To compensate for the other person's unavailability, we worked too hard. We may have done all or most of the work. This may mask the situation for a while, but we usually get tired. Then, when we stop doing all the work, we notice there is no relationship, or we're so tired we don't care.
Doing all the work in a relationship is not loving, giving, or caring. It is self-defeating and relationship defeating. It creates the illusion of a relationship when in fact there may be no relationship. It enables the other person to be irresponsible for his or her share. Because that does not meet our needs, we ultimately feel victimized.
In our best relationships, we all have temporary periods where one person participates more than the other. This is normal. But as a permanent way of participating in relationships, it leaves us feeling tired, worn out, needy, and angry.
We can learn to participate a reasonable amount, and then let the relationship find its own life. Are we doing all the calling? Are we doing all the initiating? Are we doing all the giving? Are we the one talking about feelings and striving for intimacy?
Are we doing all the waiting, the hoping, and the work?
We can let go. If the relationship is meant to be, it will be, and it will become what it is meant to be. We do not help that process by trying to control it. We do not help the other person, the relationship, or ourselves by trying to force it or by doing all the work.
Let it be. Wait and see. Stop worrying about making it happen. See what happens and strive to understand if that is what you want.
Today I will stop doing all the work in my relationships. I will give myself and the other person the gift of requiring both people to participate. I will accept the natural level my relationships reach when I do my share and allow the other person to choose what his or her share will be. I can trust my relationships to reach their own level. I do not have to do all the work; I need only do my share.
Lil posted on another thread: Yes, you can create conditions, nudge them, set boundaries, but in the end people do what they WANT to... and that may from time to time be the same thing YOU want them to do, but it's not a formula "put in the nickel, pull the handle, get the response you want."
Thanks for both posts Lil.
My individual counseling session topic was "What role do Self-help books play in getting closer to what you want." BTW, it seem foolish to say a "goal" and expect to get there.
The C said, self help books are good for organizing ideas, good for making suggestions, explaining what might be happening, but too many people rely on the formula presented in some books.
It isn't the book's problem but when people read a book and expect if they memorise and correctly use the formula in the book, the reader assumes learning the formula will make his/her situation better.
It's the hope of the individual, that if they can apply the formula/plan/concept, etc, the reader will have a way to solve a problem. In some cases they do but in too many cases the reader's or the SO case doesn't apply or the reader's SO has not acknowledge the same problem as the reader of the self-help book. In many cases, books are written with things that work for one person but won't work with another person or relationship.
The C didn't discouraging reading any self-help books, just brought up why something that sounds like it should work, don't be disappointed if it doesn't work like the book examples. Books have examples that worked for the individuals stories in the book but don't contain all/any examples where the idea/concept didn't work, but logic said it should have worked.
Another point was, its good to read about successes and learn the books concepts but many times even the right methods won't work because either of the individuals might not be in the stage of their life where the examples will take root.
Maybe relationships should be thought of something like a alchemy science experiment. Add or change one element and observe the results. There are not any good or bad outcomes, just outcomes.
Lou, I have yet to have this happen, yet I can see that it might have great benefit. Cinema said something similar I think at one time. I think Michele has advocated something similar. IF you can sit down with your spouse and study someone's suggestions and CALMY discuss it together, picking it apart and commenting on it together, it will yield insite to eachother and likely bond the partners together in doing something constructive together to fix things. (rofl, I did read this and desided not to edit it. How many times can you use together in 5 or so lines? I guess that is the problem in the first place, hu?)
Isn't Altruism nifty?
Ok, I have learned things in my readings and am glad for that. Trying to apply it at the correct time is difficult still.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Quote: IF you can sit down with your spouse and study some one's suggestions and CALMY discuss it together, picking it apart
LG, we get to the "picking it apart" part but I don't have answers for some of the "picking it apart" problems BB come up with. Some answers work, some work a time or two, and many don't get off the ground.
Quote: Trying to apply it at the correct time is difficult still.
I really have a difficult time with those words of wisdom. I know "a day later and a dollar short" fits in here some place when BB and I do talk.
Lou, I went through so many of the self help books, mainly as a way of gaining some control over my life...most have had something worthwhile to say. I think it makes sense to try to reach out in some fashion ( whether its by books, counseling, an anonymous board, etc.)...what I find strange is that my H never shows any initative to try to make things better in this way. He's watched tapes, read books, and is even in therapy all from my prompting, but on his own he wouldn't have done a thing. Refused any kind of help for so long. I just don't get it.
Quote: what I find strange is that my H never shows any initiative to try to make things better in this way.
IHJ, but doesn't your H "think" he is doing something, taking some initiatives? I don't see BB doing much on her own. She does some of what I ask in her own way but talks like she is the one doing 90% of the R work. Yes she is almost over her shopping addiction but the sex is way down, When I ask a question she asks why I am asking.
Quote: He's watched tapes, read books, and is even in therapy all from my prompting, but on his own he wouldn't have done a thing.
So my question about this is, does he see the reasons why you say the R needs these activities? Why the R might benefit from these activities? Does he think goals/outcomes you have in mind are good for him and you. Does he think he can do them?
BB thinks the goals are good and we need them but she also thinks she is too old for some goals to be reached and not interested in other goals.
Quote: I just don't get it.
Like corri said, You/they can't see it till you/they see it. that is all I can come up with now IHJ.
I went to Office depot and saw a book titled Shut up, Stop Whining, & Get A Life: A Kick-Butt Approach to a Better Life by Larry Winget. The Amazon review is http://www.amazon.com/Shut-Stop-Whining-Get-Life/dp/0471654655 Does anyone have an opinion about Larry Winget or any of his works?
Here's the Larry Winget website Larry Winget . He sounds like a cross between Byron Katie* and Dr. Phil. His message does appear to make people realize that they have control over their lives and that if you're putting up with something unacceptable, it's because you're choosing to put up with it. AND that you can't make others change, but YOU have the power to change yourself and your circumstances.
______________________
* "Loving What Is," and "I Need Your Love, Is This True?"
On your thread you said you didn't know what the equivalent condition would be for a woman to a mans ED, try vaginal atrophy. Can't get it up VS can't stand to have something put in it. That coupled with R and attitude problems, I don't know what to do some days.
I was glad to see all of the improvements in your life and was impressed to hear about the religious activities and work your bf is doing. That type of activities seem to build bonds with most people.
Quote: On your thread you said you didn't know what the equivalent condition would be for a woman to a mans ED, try vaginal atrophy.
With all due respect, I don't think this even comes close. A woman's identity is not bound up in her vagina the way a man's is with his penis--ALL HIS LIFE. Boys are comparing dicks before either boys or girls know what a vagina is for.
And breast size isn't comparable because different men like different size breasts but NO ONE likes a soft dick when a hard dick is needed.
