love never fails

[Santhony]

Hey Liz,

((((((((((((Liz))))))))))))

I think there is a lot of good advice and insight already from the others. Please try not to blame yourself. It is easy to blame others for our problems and as a society - this has become the norm. You know people that do X to someone and fail to take responsibility for X because their parents/relative/someone else did X or Y to them. It wasn't their fault!

Life is about taking responsibilty for your actions. Life is about creating your own experience. The reasons why your H may have acted/behaved/whatever in your M was because people do what works. It doesn't mean it is good or right - but it was working for him. Likewise - the way he is behaving/acting now IS WORKING FOR HIM NOW. He needs it to work for him because of OW. He has to prove to OW that it is all your fault and he is a really good man and he is worth it. People want to be around people that are attractive. I'm not talking about physical attractiveness although that is part of it. I am talking about the qualities like self-confidence, good sense of humor, a passion for life. Your H is acting this part right now (remember how emotional/up/down he seemed regarding D just a couple of weeks ago?) because he wants to keep the interest of the OW. Until he really really believes it and starts living it - it won't take hold and he will fall into an old rut.

It is easy to want our XWs or XHs to fall on their faces. It helps us deal with the idea that they are the ones with the problem. Fact of the matter is - while this does seem to happen most of the time, it is possible that your H will get his act together. But either way is that a reflection on you? Nope! We are responsible for ourselves and our own happiness. The only person your H can blame for anyone is the person he looks at in the mirror each morning - if he can even look himself in the eyes....

Hang in there Liz. Work on you! What do you want to do? What is next for you? Start small then build from there. You know life is about "living". Start living your life the way YOU want to. Let God take care of you H now (because he is going to need it.)

God Bless,

Santhony

[freckles1]

Hey Liz -

Santhony's comment about looking in the mirror reminded of an article that my STBXH cut out of the paper a couple of years before the bomb......

THE MAN IN THE GLASS

When you get what you want in your struggle for
self,
And the world makes you king for a day,
Just go to the mirror and look at yourself,
And see what THAT man has to say.
For it isn't your father or mother or wife
Whose judgment upon you must pass.
The fellow whose verdict counts most in you life
Is the one staring back from the glass.
Some people might think you're a straight-shooting
chum
And call you a wonderful guy,
But the man in the glass says you're only a bum
If you can't look him straight in the eye.
He's the fellow to please, never mind the rest,
For he's with you clear up to the end.
And you've passed your most dangerous, difficult
test
If the guy in the glass is your friend.
You may fool the whole world down the pathway
of years,
And get pats on the back as you pass.
But your final reward will be heartaches
and tears
If you've cheated the man in the glass.

I've been tempted many times to send him the article but I don't think he'd get the point anymore but I do

Hugs,
Mary

[want2bmarried]

That was excellent!!! I am putting it in my journal.

[kafira]

I_Still_Love_Him wrote: It's just so frustrating when the MLC is so obvious.

I know it's so obvious to everyone else, but I'm still not sure that's what this is. However, I do believe now that OW is going through MLC.

I_Still_Love_Him wrote: Is your H not responsible for providing for your S with the D agreement?

He pays child support but it's not very much. Once I am working, I'll be able to use his support for clothing and items specifically for S4 but right now I have to use it to pay the bills.

I_Still_Love_Him wrote: As for your H's new look, I honestly believe this will all be temporary. When the real H appears, let's see how long OW will be sticking around in both of our situations.

Yea, believe me...I'm anxiously awaiting the day OW sees my xH for the man he really is.

I_Still_Love_Him wrote: What is so ironic is that while your H and OW have both abandoned their M to be together, one of them will do the same to the other. When it will happen is unknown but it will.

I feel this is likely, but of course my xH and OW are convinced that their love is true and everlasting.

I_Still_Love_Him wrote: What happens when the feelings for OW start to change and he no longer is motivated to change his character? He will go back to being who he really is because his motivation was not for the right reason.

Well, that's assuming his feelings for her will change. What if this IS the real deal, what if she IS his soulmate or whatever? Sometimes I think he'll stick it out just to prove to everyone that it is real.

iluv2teach wrote: Just stop busting his chops, try to be a friend as much as possible, and take care of you, get a life, and as they keep telling me, go on as if you and H will not be reconciling. You might be surprised and his reaction when he feels he can't have the best of both worlds.

I've been pretty dark lately, but of course...so has he. When I do speak to him, I try to keep it friendly. It's hard, because I'm so hurt and angry. I don't think he sees me as even a second choice at this point, so I don't worry about the "best of both worlds" thing. He's simply not interested at all. His feelings for OW have completely overshadowed anything he had for me, including sexual attraction. He treats me like a stranger.

By the way, your post didn't offend me at all. I totally understand where you're coming from.

ConfusedMess wrote: Was your H different when you first met him than he was 2 or 3 years later? I bet he was.

Yes, but the person he showed me in the beginning was not drastically different from the person he really is. However, right now he's trying very hard to be different -- to the point that I actually find myself uncomfortable around him for the first time in 13 years. He just doesn't seem like he's the same person at all. Either he's good at faking or he really is changing for her.

ConfusedMess wrote: You cannot ever hold someone back from being someone they want to be. It's not possible. EVER.

Well, one example he uses is his marijuana smoking. He says that he was never able to quit when he was with me because I didn't encourage it enough. I didn't take a hard stance on it, which she apparently did. She basically told him that if he wanted to be with her, he had to stop smoking pot. That was enough for him to quit...and he's been sober for about a month or so now (according to him). However, I did encourage him to quit over the years and we had many conflicts over it. Did I take a hard stance? No. I didn't ever say that I would leave if he didn't quit. Maybe that was where I went wrong, but I was trying to love him without ultimatums and conditions.

He says that with OW he is motivated to start over fresh and be a better person. He says he feels like a "new man," and that he's not going to screw it up this time. It just hurts because I always wanted him to make these kinds of changes with me...and for our children. She must be one hell of a woman to make him want to do things he never did in the almost 13 years we spent together.

And now a very brief update:

OW's xH called last night and we talked a little bit. He said that when he picked up his kids on Friday night, he noticed that xH and OW seemed "on edge" and nervous. He said that when he talks to OW, she seems like she's stressed. I think they are just stressing about me and OW's xH talking. I don't know why that would matter, though.

My xH told OW's xH that he will have to deal with him when picking up the kids, which grew into a conflict. OW's xH said that he has contacted his attorney and will be drawing up new custody papers that state that no outside party will be involved in the exchange of the children and that the place of pickup/dropoff will be a neutral location. He's already told OW about it and she's pissed, as is my xH. Obviously, my xH wanted to be in control of that situation as much as possible (keeping OW and her xH from seeing each other during the exchange of children). I know none of this makes any difference in my situation, but it is a tiny victory in that my xH is seeing that he doesn't have the amount of power he thinks he has.

[Jen_Jam]

[quote my xH is seeing that he doesn't have the amount of power he thinks he has.

---

oh I had to give a dark laugh to this - the silly boy has been looknig to others to give him strength.
So it's YOUR fault he didn't stop the pot? Rubbish!
He needs to start anew with someone else cos YOU are too full of problems? Again, what rot!!!

I'm starting to feel really sorry for the guy....running about, getting a D to make himself feel better....poor sod, he really has no clue at all, does he?

Liz, this guy is immature and not at all self aware. It's not your fault, I'm just sad you got hurt. You don't deserve that.

[want2bmarried]

Liz, I haven't taken my own advice yet. But maybe if you go I will too....LOL>

People have suggested I go to an Alanon meeting. For the drug use of our xh's but also for the codependency factor. I have read some about the program and find that living with these people that program our heads into believing we are the cause of all of their problems wear on us.

I don't know. My T felt that even though it does not look real promising with H, that I need to heal and get support for the codependency issues. Just a thought.

[ANewMe]

My H smoked pot, too and I am sure he still does and probably more than when he lived here. OW is fine with it or so she said before she started sleeping with my H. (we were friends) H has smoked every day for more than twenty years. I believe it has caused his MLC to be worse than normal. I do know that it has contributed to his memory issues. He tells me I said and did things that I know I didn't ever say or do. Maybe he is hallucinating. Sad because he iwas a bright and loving man.

[kafira]

H has smoked every day for more than twenty years. I believe it has caused his MLC to be worse than normal. I do know that it has contributed to his memory issues. He tells me I said and did things that I know I didn't ever say or do.

My xH smoked every single day for the last 10 years, at least. He smoked a bowl upon waking up, nursed a few throughout the day, and then had several when he got home from work until he went to bed. That's why it's so hard for me to imagine that he's completely quit for OW. He claims it was easy, that he didn't have any trouble at all -- but throughout the years, he would try and never could go without it for very long (maybe a day or two). He says now that I "enabled" him, that's why he couldn't ever quit.

My xH has memory issues, too. He forgets things he's told me, things we've talked about, dates, names, etc. He has a poor sense of time, too. A month will pass and he'll act like it's only been a few days. I don't know if that's from the weed or if it's something else.

In this situation, OW is *not* fine with it. She's told him that he cannot smoke pot and be in her life. She essentially gave him an ultimatum. So, it'll be interesting to see how long it lasts. Maybe he really can quit that easily...given the right inspiration. He said that he doesn't need it anymore. It makes me feel sad that he needed it to maintain his sanity when we were together, but now that he's got OW he doesn't need it. I think it's because she's his new drug.

[forever21]

Hi liz,

You deserve better, YOU just need to realize that. Just want you to know I'm thinking of you. Not much to say, that you haven't already heard. I like what everyone has shared. I'm also going to copy down Mary's 'The Man in the Glass', LOVE THAT!

want2bmarried- although my C never thought I had codependency issues, it's something I felt I needed to address. I've used this book Facing Love Addiction(Giving Yourself the Power to Change the Way You Love) by Pia Mellody for a few years, and it's been helpful.

Liz, you can do this. Give yourself and your children the life you deserve. Hugs and love to you and everyone! f21

[ANewMe]

I think it's because she's his new drug.

You may be right, but we both know it will not last. When things get boring and they will, he will pick the bowl right back up.

My H smoked as soon as he got home from work and usually again before bed. On the weekends that is the first thing he did even before his coffee. My S's were teenagers when he dropped the bomb and he still smoked in our bedroom and couldn't believe it when I told him that the smell followed him down the steps. After he left I found out that S19 was pretty sure his dad was the one smoking and S17 suspected. When S17 heard for sure from his brother he cried.

Pretty crappy, huh.