LIZ! you did GREAT! Just as everyone else has said you set boundaries... When XH has your S, he has your son for the entirety. He can't use you as the backup plan for when things aren't PERFECT! It's time for him to be a parent too. And you're right, you need to know WHERE S will be. In fact in VA, and I suspect most states... the settlement agreement specifically states that the parties will provide advance notice of their address to each other. For just this reason.
Now, you want to hear a good one? XW tells me yesterday she's engaged! Met THIS guy in July. Moved into his "basement apt" the end of OCT. Now engaged. Hmmmm. All I could say was something like "Gee, now there's a surprise... guess four of us will have to split that pool!" She got pissy and stomped out. D15 gets mad at ME and says "WHY CAN'T YOU JUST BE HAPPY FOR MOM?"
Quote: It's just that I see that my xH is so deeply entrenched in this R with her now that I can't imagine him getting out of it anytime soon -- and even if he does, I can't imagine him wanting to work things out with me. It seems to me that he's closed the door on any possibility of us. And while I do not want him as he currently is, I would welcome the opportunity for us to build a new, better R someday...and because I still have so much love for him, it's hard to imagine myself with anyone else.
I'm right there w/ ya! I too want nothing to do w/ XW in her current alien mode. Sad to say that I don't see her changing. Lady friend wanted to know if I was alright after hearing this news... I said, YEAH, this just further validates my belief that she's got her head screwed on wrong!
Quote: I must admit, I'm having a really hard time doing any sort of GAL stuff. I may sound strong to so many of you, but in reality I'm really depressed. I find that I can barely eat, sleep, and that I cry quite a bit still. I just keep wondering when the pain will stop. I get brief moments of relief and then it all hits me again.
BTDT! sucks huh? I still wake almost every night around 3ish. BUT, it does get better. I think it will take a long time for the pain to completely go away... for both of us, but things are getting better. Biggest prob. for me these days are the kids. They are snarly, rude, disrespectful and absolute angels for Mom. Well, as more than one person has pointed out, they are modelling HER behavior towards me of the past 5 years; IE she was angry/mad at me and treated me poorly and let them also...
Son's idea of me "bugging him" is me saying "HI, how was your day at school?" when he comes home. He wants to just walk past me and not say anything and gets pi$$ed when tell him that's rude. This AM, daughter is rushing b/c the bus is coming and I said "have a nice day, I'll see you this afternoon" and she snaps at me ands says DAD, I'M KINDA IN A HURRY HERE, THE BUS IS COMING AND I LEFT STUFF UPSTAIRS! I said back, gee, all I said was have a nice day, I'm not slowing you down or anything!
I really worry how S/D are going to deal w/ this if statistics play out and this new R blows up in her face. Ideally it would BEFORE she's married, but I am betting she'll get married and then in about 3 years slaps her forehead....
Quote: I am really lonely, that's the tough part. I'm lonely for companionship, but I am still so hurt and raw from the things my xH did to me that I can't imagine being ready to find a companion anytime soon. So, it seems like such a vicious circle to me...and it makes me feel hopeless.
Again, this is where I'm at, or rather, slowly getting past. Just when I think I might be able to really jump into something, I find myself at the bottom of another hill and have to start the long slow slog back up to a PMA... But the hills are starting to even out and the ups/downs aren't quite so dramatic.
Quote: It's just that I see that my xH is so deeply entrenched in this R with her now that I can't imagine him getting out of it anytime soon
Entrenchment is what you want because that's the only way they are both going to have to deal with the reality of the situation.
Honestly, the more I hear about your husband, the more I think you could be doing sooooo much better.... It sounds to me he's living with her because he needs someone to take care of him financially. If that's so, eventually she's going to resent that.
Quote: I've dipped my toes in the dating world a little and I'm just not ready, I've realized. I am far too injured to be putting myself out there. So, when it comes to GAL, I guess I'm going to stick to platonic friendships, solo ventures, and things with the kids.
That's completely normal. It takes at least one to two years post-divorce before most people are even ready to start dating. You have a lot of baggage right now that you're going to need to work through. In the meantime do have platonic relationships, both female and male. Of course you don't feel happy right now, but it will happen. It's just going to take time.
Treat yourself gently and do good things for you and your son now.
One more thing... with your son. If you have any sense that he may not be safe or well take care of (there may be a lot of tension in the house where H and OW are), you may want to go ahead and pick him up when he's upset or not feeling well.
From what you described, that situation did not sound good to me....
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
I don't have anything to say really - you know how I feel about all of this and what words I might offer so I'll refrain. I just wanted you to know I'm here for you - then again, I think you already know that!
Fair warning, this will be long and probably a bit disjointed.
So, I talked to OW's xH yesterday. We talked for about 2 hours and then he called me back later in the afternoon and we talked for another 30 minutes or so. I contacted him first.
Basically, I wanted to get some things straight about what happened. I wanted to hear his perspective and tell him mine. We shared stories and I was not very surprised to find that his W was having an A with my H as far back as August.
The details about her were interesting to me. She's older than me by two years (which makes her 9 years older than my H). She's on ADs and has a history of anxiety and depression. I guess she's fairly insecure and somewhat needy. The reason she left her H for my H was because he didn't spend enough time with her and express love to her enough. He was hard at work, keeping a business going...and meanwhile, she started an A with the first guy to give her that much-desired attention (my H). Her xH told me that he suspected an A a few times, but he kept telling himself, "That guy's a loser, she'd never go there." Ha.
She got a huge settlement, which she's already spent -- inside of a month. She bought a house that my xH is now going to "fix up" for her and she also bought my xH the jeep he was driving the other day. In addition, she cleared up some of his old debts and helped him get his license back. And then she went to her xH and asked for more money, because she needs food for the kids. The nerve! I told her xH that he should be careful about whatever he gives to her, because it will likely be spent on my xH.
Remember back in October, when my H was being all distant and grumpy with me after coming closer? He ignored me for more than a week and then sent me a few snarky text messages. Well, I found out that he was in Wisconsin with OW, visiting her family during that time. No wonder he didn't want to hear from me.
She went to his parents' house for Thanksgiving, too. So, they've met each other's families. Ugh.
OW's xH read me a love letter he found that my xH wrote to OW. It was painful to hear, but amusing in a way. It said something about how he couldn't bear to be away from her for even a minute, that he was more in love with her than he had ever been with anyone, that he would do anything to prove his love to her and would love her forever. It was pretty standard love letter fare, I suppose. In fact, it was a lot like the letters he wrote to me in the early months of our relationship. Still, it hurt to hear it.
OW's xH was surprised to find out that my xH has a criminal past, including domestic violence. He was shocked to hear about the drug use, too...and I think even more surprised to hear that my xH hasn't held a job for more than 8 months at a time throughout the entire time we were together. He said, "I guess she'll get all of that attention she wants so badly now, since he will be at home to dote on her." I laughed and told him it would be that way for a while, but that the affection and attention levels would decrease over time and she'd find herself wanting more attention than my xH would be willing to give. Sure, right now he's all about her -- but I'm sure that will wear off and he'll grow tired of reassuring her, giving her constant attention, etc.
Anyhow, I called my xH right away and talked to him about the whole thing. Of course, he blew up. He called me every name in the book and told me he hates me. He said that me calling OW's xH was the "worst, lowest thing a human could do". I laughed at that. He said that it proved I was a "meddler" and that I was just trying to ruin his life and keep him from being happy, which (in his mind) has always been my goal.
I told him that wasn't true, that I was calling for my own reasons...for closure, for my own need for information, etc. I said that I wanted him to know that I knew the truth now (or as much of it as I'm likely to ever know) and I feel better having heard her xH's side of the story. He didn't care about what I needed, he only saw his own turmoil.
We talked on and off all day, sometimes civil and sometimes not. He seemed to want to showcase his anger with me while OW was witnessing it. She was in the background later in the day, coaching him and telling me off through him. She said she didn't want to know me, that she didn't believe my lies, that I was just jealous, etc. She talked to her xH and heard about how I was sleeping with my H all through the separation and she doesn't believe it. She told her xH that I'm just trying to stir up trouble. Oh well, if she doesn't want to believe it, it's not really my problem. I've planted a little seed of doubt in her mind...whether she knows it or not...and someday, when she least expects it, my xH will show his true colors and she will remember the things I said.
Later in the evening, I called and left a voicemail for my xH, telling him that I was sorry for the way things played out. I didn't apologize for calling OW's xH, but I did say that I probably could have handled the resulting conversations better and more maturely. I said that I was sad that he found himself "hating" me now after this, but that I understood...and that I hoped someday, he'd understand why I did what I did. I wished them well and told him to pass on my apology to OW and to tell her that I wouldn't involve myself in their private lives any longer. I said that I just wanted us to all be civil with each other for S4's sake.
My xH called me back later and he was nice. He thanked me for the apology, though he didn't offer one of his own. He said that OW made him call (he let her listen to my message). We talked a little more about things and I told my xH that I was battling feelings of rejection, insecurity, and jealousy. I figured honesty was the best policy at that point. I told him that it was difficult for me to let go, but that I was going to do it. He said he just wants me to be happy and that he knows I will find someone who will treat me better than he did. That was the closest he came to admitting he had any responsibility for our relationship problems. All day long, he was saying things about how it was all my fault and how I was a difficult person to live with and that I deserved everything I got from him. I told him I knew I deserved better, but that I wasn't interested in a R with anyone...that I wanted to be alone for a while and get to know me again. I guess when I was saying that, I was sort of making a point to him that he didn't do that -- he jumped right into this R from our M...and she did the same. He told me just a few weeks ago that he wasn't going to get too serious with anyone, because he knew that he could not handle a commitment. Now he's moving in with her? I guess like so many have said...it will probably be the beginning of the end, so I'll just watch from the sidelines and enjoy the show when the time comes for it all to fall apart.
Quote: I guess like so many have said...it will probably be the beginning of the end, so I'll just watch from the sidelines and enjoy the show when the time comes for it all to fall apart.
Liz, I can envisage a chorus of assent and much nodding of heads to that one from your assembled BB pals and supporters.
Sorry to hear you had to go through the above, but well done for having the courage to confront all those folks. It must have been hard for you - but look at the rewards: you now have clarity where there was a mist of uncertainty; you have knowledge, upon which you can make rational decisions; and you have confirmation that YOU have had the correct analysis, and have been doing the right thing, while others were going about their crummy business.
If I was your xH, and had even one lucid moment available to me, I'd suddenly be thinking, "Shlt, how is she EVER going to want me back after all this....???". I predict that is a question you/he will have to face, maybe sooner than you think - you should prepare your thoughts and feelings for that one over the near future.
Suggestion: Pour yourself a drink this evening Liz, and kick back, because you have done well today. Rent a silly movie, pile onto the sofa with your kids, and have a lot of laughs.
-------
Tangent: I've read back through your posts and one thing jumps out at me.... you have a fantastic writing style!! Beautiful prose, keen descriptive powers, and buckets of insight into the human condition. I don't know where your career is at the moment, but if you're looking for a new beginning you might seriously consider writing - some form of journalism, broadcasting, maybe, or perhaps a longer form. Anyhoo, just a thought.*
The world is your oyster, girl!!!
Peter
*idea: - How Good Was My GAL? Lizemba's Guide to Surviving the Big D, lol, my agent will invoice you for the 10% idea fee, Liz... see you on Oprah!!!!
Wow. Liz, I think for the first time you need to stand up and be sooooo thankful this is over. I know what it is to love a loser. I don't mean to sound harsh, but now you can step back and see him for what he really is. I just heard some info about my WAH's family and drama that surrounds it and my first thought was I am so thankful I don't have to be a part of that anymore. I do love and miss him alot, but his issues far outweigh the good in him.
Hope your day is good.
Me: 41
WAH: 32
Married 11 months
5 kids between us
WAH left: 7/1/06
http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB40&Number=1279331&fpart=&PHPSESSID=
WAH filed: 8/31/06
I understand why you called OW's XH. Not sure why you bothered to tell your H, or really why you call him at all. But hopefully now you have that out of your system and can move forward with your life.
It does help confirm that there is not much point in looking at positives or negatives when it comes to WASes because we have no idea what else is going on. You probably suspected you had done something wrong when he went distant and probably felt things were going right when he was seeking out sex. When things do come to light, it becomes clear that their behavior has everything to do with them and nothing to do with you. But it's all part of the process. We have to learn to let go. And I mean actually let go. Move forward and not look back at what could have been.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
I could have written this post 5 years ago. I contacted OW's H as soon as I knew. Trouble was - he didn't know. She was even LIVING with my H and he didn't know. He didn't WANT to know. He was in denial.
I got the same response from H, although I hadn't told him. This man whom I had been with for 30 years shared all our phone conversations with her. SHE came on the line telling me what was mine and what they wanted in terms of MY material things. Can you imagine? That was the one and only time I ever spoke to that woman.
Many people have asked whether to tell OP's spouse or not. I still am not sure there is a right or wrong answer. Every situation is different. Not sure if it affected the outcome at all.
But I do understand your disbelief at your ex's response. It took me a long long time to realize that he was not the same person anymore so I could not predict his behaviour.
Anyway, just wanted to say "Been there, done that". Hope you got some answers. I DO feel that in the long run it did help me to understand things more.
I'm actually surprised you called your xH to tell him you spoke with the OW xH. Just curious what were you looking to get out of the exchange?
Quote: Anyhow, I called my xH right away and talked to him about the whole thing. Of course, he blew up. He called me every name in the book and told me he hates me. He said that me calling OW's xH was the "worst, lowest thing a human could do". I laughed at that. He said that it proved I was a "meddler" and that I was just trying to ruin his life and keep him from being happy, which (in his mind) has always been my goal.
Funny how your happiness doesn't enter into the situation. He's just trying to shift blame from him to you. There has to be a piece of him that knows what he's done and a big chunk of this is working to control the situation (pass the blame game).
Quote: We talked on and off all day, sometimes civil and sometimes not. He seemed to want to showcase his anger with me while OW was witnessing it. She was in the background later in the day, coaching him and telling me off through him.
Ugh... big man yell at ex. Oops... how does that script go again? Feed me another line... can't think for myself. <<- What an idiot.
Quote: Oh well, if she doesn't want to believe it, it's not really my problem. I've planted a little seed of doubt in her mind...whether she knows it or not...and someday, when she least expects it, my xH will show his true colors and she will remember the things I said.
Yes you did. Don't worry. She'll probably blame you for this later.
Quote: He said he just wants me to be happy and that he knows I will find someone who will treat me better than he did.
OK. This is a copout on your xH's part. A little band-aid if you were on his guilt. He's trying to shift some of this back onto you with this statement and not own his own actions. Bleh.
Quote: I guess when I was saying that, I was sort of making a point to him that he didn't do that -- he jumped right into this R from our M...
I'm not sure he gets it yet. But he will >;)
Liz, just know that this has nothing to do with and you need to trust that you didn't do anything WRONG. Know that you are a good person and extremely lovable. All of us that have been following along with your thread can see you for who you are... a wonderful, thoughtful, and caring person. You even have a sense of humor too...
At least with this you know more of the details and all I can see from it is a lot of the lies coming to the surface. It says a lot about your ex. For you, just learn what you can about the effort it takes to communicate and express your needs so you can take this with you. Nothing is ever wasted that you learn something from.
So what's next for Lizemba?
Me: 45 W43 S7, Foster S9 (Planning to adopt post divorce) D mentioned Feb 2015, Wife served 3/24/2015. She moved out 4/15/2015.
I wanted to tell my xH about talking with OW's xH for two reasons. First of all, I had a pretty good feeling that OW's xH would call OW (and he did, just a few minutes after I called my xH) and therefore, I wanted to admit what I did up front rather than have it look like I was trying to be sneaky. Secondly, I truly wanted to talk to him about what I found out. I wanted him to know that I knew the truth about certain things. I knew that it wouldn't go well. I knew that he'd get mad and I even suspected that OW would not believe anything I said. Still, it was worth it.
Quote: peterDM wrote: I've read back through your posts and one thing jumps out at me.... you have a fantastic writing style!! Beautiful prose, keen descriptive powers, and buckets of insight into the human condition. I don't know where your career is at the moment, but if you're looking for a new beginning you might seriously consider writing - some form of journalism, broadcasting, maybe, or perhaps a longer form. Anyhoo, just a thought.
Thanks, Peter. That's really quite flattering! I actually have considered a career in writing (majored in English), but I just never seem to get motivated to write that "great American novel". Maybe someday...
Maybe someday...