love never fails

[Santhony]

Hey Liz,

I am sorry to hear about what you are going through.

I know exactly what you mean about the leaving a message thing. I used to talk to my W for like 30 min to an hour every day at work - she always needed to talk, tell me about her day, etc.

Now she doesn't call much (I don't call at all) and when she does - If I don't answer, she almost never leaves me a message. It's really bizarre. There are others that have experienced the same thing. Still makes it weird.

12 years is a long time to spend with someone and it's hard to let go. I wonder if he ever thinks of me fondly or misses me. I guess it's possible, but he'll not share that with me. His feelings for the OW have overshadowed any that he might have for me.

This has to be a really hard thing to think about. I have heard that they must get the OW or OM out of the picture before they will miss us. The lure of the OW/OM is strong - the challenge of pursuing them is all they can think about. In some ways, I wonder if it really is the OW/OM they really love - or is it the excitement of the chase. Once they "get what they want" they feel bad about what they have done, but don't want egg all over their face about how they were wrong - so they just suffer. It sounds like your H is already suffering with the OW. I don't think what they have will last at all.

You have a ton to offer Liz, but I think you already know that. You are a beautiful person - both inside and out. You sound like you are holding your own. We are here if you need to vent or anything.

(((((((((((Lizemba)))))))

God Bless,

Santhony

[OldFool]

I've been following your thread now that you're in the divorced group and my heart goes out to you. We share several elements in common...I'm just following along behind you a bit.

I'd like to think my WAW would one day feel like the song you shared. But I also know that its very possible she may never know the pain and destruction she has left in her wake. Some people just go through life blissfully ignorant of the impact they have on others.

In my personal sitch, I never had the chance to adjust to a separation as you did. My WAW and I were separated for only three weeks before she filed for D. So I almost went straight from "what's going on?!?" to "it's over" with barely enough time to breathe. The only good news is that in Oregon, you have to wait 90 days before a divorce can be final. Perhaps this "cooling off" period will give her time to consider slowing things down a bit. Sadly, you don't have that advantage (not that it'll do me any good).

As you love your H, I love my W, but I have come to the realization that I actually love the W I knew (and had married), not the one that exists at this particular point in time. This was a BIG thing for me as it allowed me to recognize that even if she returned tomorrow, I wouldn't actually want her back as she is.

Just as I need to change and improve, so does she. This understanding has greatly helped me detach and GAL. I am also walking the tightrope between moving on and keeping the possibility for reconciliation on the table. This has proven very difficult, but I'm doing my best. I keep reminding myself that I need to develop more patience and that I need to allow time and the Holy Spirit to work.

Like you, I have essentially gone dark and didn't take calls from my WAW (they've now stopped). Without children, this pretty much eliminated any contact other than the occasional e-mail. I hope it's the right thing to do...but hard to say. The good thing is that if we're not talking, she can't hurt me any more or try to bait me into rash statements or an argument. It's also taken the spotlight off me (as DR says) so she now has only herself and her issues to face.

My hope is that without me as a catalyst, the PA with OM will be on the ropes soon. However, I have no illusions and while such situations generally do end...and badly...sometimes this can take months and occasionally years. As long as the OM is a possible "plan B", there's not much incentive to work on our R so I've pretty much put everything on hold until the PA becomes more like an R.

Interestingly, it seems many folk become jealous and unhappy when the WAS tries to turn the PA into an R. For me, the damage was already done with the PA. Moving to an R is a positive, at least from my perspective, because it leads right back to all the problems that my WAW never addressed in our R.

If there's one thing that'll destroy anything with the OM, it will most likely be an R and all the pressures and problems that go with one. The PA is easy and fun, the R is complicated and hard work and whatever baggage she took from our R that hasn't been addressed will be right there waiting for her in the next R, ready to sabotage that as well.

I know, it's not much of a silver lining...but I've learned to grab what little I can. Perhaps you can use this thought to help you through the coming months as you wait, like me, for your WAS to find the grass tastes just the same "over there".

[kafira]

Thanks for sharing your story with me, OldFool (not sure that's an appropriate name for you; you sound wise to me!).

Some people just go through life blissfully ignorant of the impact they have on others.

I think it's actually quite rare for people to remain that ignorant. I think what is more likely is that many people cannot come to terms with the damage they have done, so they never really express any regret outwardly. Inwardly, I do believe that most WAS experience regret. My xH is the type of person who does not experience regret outwardly most of the time. He's a very proud person. But he's humbled himself before to me (he's come back after separation), so I use him as an example to others that even the proudest of people will sometimes surprise you by showing humility.

In my personal sitch, I never had the chance to adjust to a separation as you did. My WAW and I were separated for only three weeks before she filed for D. So I almost went straight from "what's going on?!?" to "it's over" with barely enough time to breathe.

Wow, that's rough. I had almost 6 months of separation before the final bomb was dropped -- and for about 4 months of that, my xH was "on the fence" about us. So, yes, I did have some time to adjust and that did make it easier. I can't imagine how hard it is to find yourself in the D process so soon.

The only good news is that in Oregon, you have to wait 90 days before a divorce can be final. Perhaps this "cooling off" period will give her time to consider slowing things down a bit. Sadly, you don't have that advantage (not that it'll do me any good).

Well, think positive. You never know what might happen.

No, I don't have that advantage. My last hope is that the paperwork is rejected (it's a possibility; there was something filled out improperly -- long story -- and I think it could make the judge reluctant to sign). Even then, I don't think that will save my marriage. My xH is hellbent on being with this OW and there's not much I can do to stop it. It has to run its course.

The good thing is that if we're not talking, she can't hurt me any more or try to bait me into rash statements or an argument.

This is exactly why I avoid talking to my xH now. I just can't take another argument like the ones we've had in the last few weeks. And he knows just what to say to make me feel like sh-t, so I'm not interested in exposing myself any longer. Also, I've decided I don't want him to know anything about my feelings anymore. For years, I have been an open book to him. I have shown him unconditional love without fail. Although I still love him that way, I will no longer express it.

Interestingly, it seems many folk become jealous and unhappy when the WAS tries to turn the PA into an R. For me, the damage was already done with the PA. Moving to an R is a positive, at least from my perspective, because it leads right back to all the problems that my WAW never addressed in our R.

I know exactly what you mean here. I feel the same way. Although it hurts to think of my xH in a R with the OW, I know that it's the only way he will ever see that the grass IS NOT greener over there. Relationships take work...and he's taking a lot of baggage into that R with her that he isn't even thinking about right now. In addition, she's got her own issues, as she just left a marriage and broke up a family. Clearly, it isn't going to be paradise over there...but until it moves out of the purely physical (crush stage, basically) and into a full-fledged R, my H won't see the reality.

Perhaps you can use this thought to help you through the coming months as you wait, like me, for your WAS to find the grass tastes just the same "over there".

I remind myself every day that there is no such thing as a perfect R, that my xH is experiencing a lot of "new relationship energy" right now and it WILL wear off. The only reason my xH and I lasted as long as we did was primarily because of MY dedication to the R, not his. He was constantly cheating, lying, leaving...and I was always trying to keep our R together. Unless he's lucked out and found another woman just like me, I doubt seriously it will last beyond 6 months.

The saddest thing to me is that my xH (and apparently, your W) are not able to see the benefits of truly working on themselves. If you want to leave a R because you feel it isn't working, fine. Leave and work on making yourself better for the next R to come along. But to leave to throw yourself into yet another R that will probably NOT work (because you haven't even dealt with your issues!) is so pathetic. Nothing gets solved that way. And in my situation, two families have been ripped apart -- five children and two LBS have broken hearts so that two very selfish people can find "true love" together.

Anyhow, thanks for posting. I hope you continue to find inner peace and strength through your D process. I know it's tough to see it at times (I know, because I lose sight of it, too)...but it will all work out in the end.

[peter2DB]

I know that it's the only way he will ever see that the grass IS NOT greener over there.

For that very reason I'm occasionally encourging W to get the hell out and be with OM, her prince charming.

It's like, these O people live gilded lives where they don't have to clean the bathroom, just spend their whole days on idyllic walks or being served chilled wine in some super restaurant....

[forever21]

Hi liz,

Hope you had a good Sunday. Everyone is mentioning your myspace page, what did I miss? I can't find you, lol. Love catching up on you, you are such a neat gal. Thanks again for all of the help you gave me. Never know, but I may be joining you here before you know it. Any new stuff in your life? Sending love your way.

forever21

[kafira]

Santhony, thanks for stopping by with words of encouragement.

forever21, nothing new to report really. I'm just trying to make it through a day at a time. I felt so positive and good yesterday, then went through a slump in the evening, then felt better again before bed...and now I'm back to feeling sort of miserable again. I will be glad when I feel normal more often than not. As for MS page, if you do a search using my email address, you can find me that way. It's marked to private now, so you'll have to add me as a friend to see the whole profile. My email address is lizemba AT yahoo DOT com.

peterDM wrote: It's like, these O people live gilded lives where they don't have to clean the bathroom, just spend their whole days on idyllic walks or being served chilled wine in some super restaurant....

Hahaha...exactly! But someone recently told me that it doesn't take long (even when you're not fully in a R, living together, etc) to see the "flaws" in a person, the little annoyances that grate on your nerves. I hope it's sooner rather than later for our WAS.

[runningoutoftime]

My xH is hellbent on being with this OW and there's not much I can do to stop it. It has to run its course.

This is so true. The only way you'd even want them back is if they've truly learned something from the whole experience. Otherwise there's a higher chance you could just go through the same cycle again.

This is exactly why I avoid talking to my xH now. I just can't take another argument like the ones we've had in the last few weeks. And he knows just what to say to make me feel like sh-t, so I'm not interested in exposing myself any longer. Also, I've decided I don't want him to know anything about my feelings anymore. For years, I have been an open book to him. I have shown him unconditional love without fail. Although I still love him that way, I will no longer express it.

Good for you! You definitely want to avoid any fights or negative interactions and if going dark will help that's what you need to do.

One more thing I want to add related to this.... if you do happen to talk with your husband and he asks why you are avoiding him you can think about sharing with him what I shared with my husband. I'd tell him it's not that I was angry or trying to avoid him, but I was focused on moving on with my life (which is basically where you want to be) and preparing for a great future.

If you do share anything only talk in general about the great things going on in your life, fun friends, nice healthy people (both female and male!). And then if he asks for details... well, there's no time. You need to run. And then go out and live that great life!

he's taking a lot of baggage into that R with her that he isn't even thinking about right now. In addition, she's got her own issues, as she just left a marriage and broke up a family. Clearly, it isn't going to be paradise over there...but until it moves out of the purely physical (crush stage, basically) and into a full-fledged R, my H won't see the reality.

That's the irony!!!! I remember you writing something about how he wanted to start somthing new with someone who didn't have so much baggage! Talk about jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

Maybe your husband feeds on drama like that? I suspect he may be enthralled with the idea of "rescuing a damsel in distress." If so he's entering a fairy tale.

[OldFool]

Thanks for the encouragement. I hope one day we will be sharing our success stories instead of our frustrations and sorrow. But for now we must be patient.

If your WAH is so intent on being with the OW, then perhaps a quick D is better for you. Get him in there so he sees that the gilded lily isn't quite as great as she appears.

I'm torn a bit on this issue as well. In one way, I hope my WAW doesn't pursue the D. On the other, if she only comes back out of guilt, shame, or fear, then I'd rather she be gone. While I want her back, the only way it will be a long term success is if she understands and makes a conscious decision for me/us...not a reaction to emotion (which is what got us here in the first place). In that scenario, I wonder if a D is the only way, at this point, to get her out there to discover this.

In the meantime, I'm LRTing and GALing my heart out (or at least to the best of my ability).

Like the OW in your sitch, the OM in mine was M with 2 or 3 kids. So two marriages went down the tubes in my case as well. I cannot fathom how anyone could look at such a situation and consider it a good foundation for building anything...let alone a relationship/marriage.

Good night and God bless.

[kafira]

running wrote: The only way you'd even want them back is if they've truly learned something from the whole experience. Otherwise there's a higher chance you could just go through the same cycle again.

Yes, and this idea is what keeps me going sometimes -- the knowledge that my xH really does have to go through this process before he can truly understand what he has thrown away.

running wrote: One more thing I want to add related to this.... if you do happen to talk with your husband and he asks why you are avoiding him you can think about sharing with him what I shared with my husband. I'd tell him it's not that I was angry or trying to avoid him, but I was focused on moving on with my life (which is basically where you want to be) and preparing for a great future.

Thanks for the advice. I do plan to say something along those lines, but I also want to remind him that HE is the one who said just a couple of weeks ago that he only wanted to speak to me about stuff relating to S4 and that he did not want to be my friend. Although I'm staying fairly dark for my own purposes, I also want him to realize that he wanted it this way, too.

running wrote: Maybe your husband feeds on drama like that? I suspect he may be enthralled with the idea of "rescuing a damsel in distress." If so he's entering a fairy tale.

Yes, I think that's a huge part of this. My xH has cheated before (mostly before we were married) and each time it happened, it was a very vulnerable woman right out of a R. In fact, I was that woman when he met me. He is attracted to women who NEED him somehow. I don't know anything about this OW, so it's hard for me to really know what's going on but I would not be surprised to find that she's got a very low self-esteem, too. Anyone with a high self-esteem would steer clear of my xH for sure.

Regardless, he IS living in a fairy tale with her. I hope soon that the "shiny" will wear off and they will see each other for who they really are -- and that it will make my xH realize that he had something better back here.

OldFool wrote: Thanks for the encouragement. I hope one day we will be sharing our success stories instead of our frustrations and sorrow. But for now we must be patient.

I remember when I first started this process that everyone said I would need PATIENCE most of all. Boy, they were right.

OldFool wrote: If your WAH is so intent on being with the OW, then perhaps a quick D is better for you. Get him in there so he sees that the gilded lily isn't quite as great as she appears.

I pray it is so!

OldFool wrote: So two marriages went down the tubes in my case as well. I cannot fathom how anyone could look at such a situation and consider it a good foundation for building anything...let alone a relationship/marriage.

They aren't seeing it clearly. Their judgment is clouded. It's that "new relationship energy". When it wears off, that's when reality will sink in.

[runningoutoftime]

In one way, I hope my WAW doesn't pursue the D. On the other, if she only comes back out of guilt, shame, or fear, then I'd rather she be gone.

Now here's the difficult thing with this.... if they do come back it's impossible to know exactly why. Yes, it's a choise and they can choose to keep going even if/when things don't work out with the OP, but when they come back there is inevitably some guilt, shame, fear of losing something they were familiar with. The interesting thing with this last one is both WAS and LBS both generally deal with the fear of losing something familiar.

When you think about it there's a little selfishness on all levels. They selfishly want to follow some dream relationship that feeds something in them and we selfishly want that to fail in some way.