It all sounds really cool, but just be careful. In regards to the trip, yes, it is good for you to show her that you are listening now, but you also need to make sure your not showing her that your expecting something from her.
I'm not saying that that is what you are doing, but she will take it as such anyways. Remember, she has already said that she thinks you've been "overdoing" it, therefore she can't believe these changes are real. and that she wants subtle and sweet, not overbearing.
So, I'm not really sure what you had in mind about the trip thing. You were going to give her brochures or something and the invitation to go with you in the future if she wanted to? IMHO I'm thinking it is too soon to offer that kind of an invitation if that's what you were thinking of doing. If she weren't living with the OM, then I would think differently, but unfortunately, she is.
I wish I had some really good info for you, but I feel that I am at a loss on this one.
Remember to treat her as a friend right now. That's what my DB coach told me when I asked him how do I behave around my H.
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
Quit trying to pick a gift that will bring W back. There is no such gift. A gift will not save your M, but it can easily crowd your W and push her away.
Most of the one's you are thinking of are romantic, intimate, etc... Just the kind of thing she DOES NOT WANT from you. They are pushy, pressuring, and worse, all about YOU and what YOU want her to think feel about YOU. And, when it isn't about you, you seem to be making it about OM. Don't give a gift if you can't do so without strings attached.
A nice sweet gift is a thoughtful gift that is about the other person. It should be based on what your W would like and enjoy, and that is it. If you are agonizing about the "meaning" of the gift, then cross it off the list. So, for instance, CDs and books are likely OUT because you will be tempted to buy a "meaningful" one for her. A massage (for one) might be nice. Gift certificates for Pizza for when she doesn't want to cook migh be nice. Anyway, something that is ONLY about her and what will enhance her life.
I think you guys are right, I'm gonna get her something that I would get a buddy. I'm thinking a the new Dane Cook DVD. She'll laugh her butt off and it has no "meaning". And just leave it at that. I've already given her a "heartfelt" gift when I got the gift card so simle is the way I'm gonna go. THanks for the advice.
Quote: It is taking evreything that I have not to point out to her that I am the one she is still relying on and I am the one that is taking care of her. I hope she sees all of these little things I am doing and appreciates it.
If you really think about that for a moment, you would come to realize you do that out of compassion and not for a response. You would do it for a friend, relative, or even a sick elderly neighbor who couldn't get out on their own.
If you think of it as treating somebody as you would want to be treated it's not so disappointing when you don't get a thank-you or acknowledgement. You know you did the right thing for the right reasons. I know my W took a lot of what I did for her for granted. Recently, she seldom showed appreciation for anything I did even if I went out of my way to do it. It never bothered me because I wasn't doing it so much for her as I was for my own self worth. I did what a H is suppose to do, I put my W's needs above my own. Don't let the fact She threw her responsibilities as a W out the window influence your character. Do the right thing and don't expect anything in return except your own self respect.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
Thanks OT. I just can't be so tough!!! But you always nail it right on.
Stillhangin. I'm glad to hear your change of heart on the gift. It will make things much easier on you, and it will be easier to not expect something and wonder what this gift "did" for her. And like you said, you already gave a heartfelt gift...and you know what happened with that. it ended well, but still created a small mess in between.
Your cooking dvd sounds cool. Does she like to cook a certain dish? like pasta or something? Maybe you could get a basket with the pasta, sauce stuff, with the dvd. I don't know. that's if you wanted to do something more than the dvd. Of course you don't want to pick out Your fav dish, then it would be about you- as Oldtimer put it- but her fav dish.
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
Quote: Your cooking dvd sounds cool. Does she like to cook a certain dish? like pasta or something? Maybe you could get a basket with the pasta, sauce stuff, with the dvd. I don't know. that's if you wanted to do something more than the dvd. Of course you don't want to pick out Your fav dish, then it would be about you- as Oldtimer put it- but her fav dish.
No I mean Dane Cook...he's a stand up comic. I think she'll like it. But yes she is a great cook, that's one of the things I miss that I never thought about.
Today when I dropped the kids off, W was looking obviously upset. She told me how she felt like nothing and that she was upset becasue of feeling a need for attachment to a male. THat she didn't think she was someone cause she can't afforf certain things and wants to go back to school but can't because of a bunch of little things.
I just told her that she is somebody because of who she is in her heart, not because of money or school. That her kindness and love made her somebody.
I told her if she wants to go back to school to just do it. Not to let little things get in the way.
At the end she thanked me and I said to call me if she needed something.
that was great stillhangin! Maybe she's starting to see the light?!? She's starting to realize her fantasy is just that: a fantasy, not reality.
That was a wonderful response too, I don't think you could have said anything better.
and regarding the Dane Cook dvd, I must be silly!
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
Be careful here. Try to validate rather than refute, dismiss, and deny W's feelings.
Better: "I can see why you would like to feel like a whole, independent person in oneself who can then choose to have a romantic R with a male. I really understand that it is important that you are happy as a person all by yourself."
Better: "It must be frustrating to face roadblocks big and small to going back to school when it is so important to who you want to be right now and what you want to do."
Be careful here. Try to validate rather than refute, dismiss, and deny W's feelings.
Better: "I can see why you would like to feel like a whole, independent person in oneself who can then choose to have a romantic R with a male. I really understand that it is important that you are happy as a person all by yourself."
Better: "It must be frustrating to face roadblocks big and small to going back to school when it is so important to who you want to be right now and what you want to do."
Best, Oldtimer
I've been trying to just be there and listen. The form of validating that you suggest seems a little patronizing to me...and I'm sure my wife would feel that way. I've tried this to an extent in the past and she has said don't patronize me. I guess there is a real fine line there.
