Quote: I must remember to not attach any expectations of outcome to my expressions, but instead offer my expressions in the interest of open communication and letting go of things that could turn to resentments
Well said, Z. Now to implement the plan.......
Hey, how do you like your C? Is it possible to get a contact down in the DC area (Waldorf, MD would be ideal. But I'm willing to travel!) May just do the phone consult with Michele's people, but would rather see one.
Keep up the good dating, Z! Make some good memories for yourself this weekend....
"I see the problem is that I first must overcome my fear of creating this dynamic, while remembering that I still have a right to express my needs and desires. I must keep in perspective that just because I have needs and desires and preferenced, W has no obligation to fulfill them."
So, Z, let me ask you this!
What about starting with expressing your needs and desires revolving around things outside of your R? Things having to do with work, other family members, future goals for yourself, etc. Things that would be relatively safe. Things that your W not only has no obligation to fulfill, but has no POWER to fulfill.
This might be good practice for you on talking about these kinds of things, and good practice for her on feeling safe about listening. It could be a way to get the ball rolling a bit.
Just a thought.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Good idea, JJ. Certainly worth a try. I already do this quite a bit, but not with a focus toward the R. W and I have a great friendship and comradery, it's intimacy in all forms that is the stumbling block. So, by taking more notice of what works in "safe" areas of the R, and in other more social R's I have, I can notice how to apply the techniques I already use to my marital R. Is that the gist of what you mean?
Quote: I see the problem is that I first must overcome my fear of creating this dynamic, while remembering that I still have a right to express my needs and desires. I must keep in perspective that just because I have needs and desires and preferenced, W has no obligation to fulfill them. That's her choice and cannot be forced. So, I must remember to not attach any expectations of outcome to my expressions, but instead offer my expressions in the interest of open communication and letting go of things that could turn to resentments of I keep storing them up. This is a very fine line. I have to release the expressions of desire and need, but not expect them to be met, and do so so it's clear to W what I need, but accept that it's her choice to respond.
You've really got me thinking about this one. I have such a problem with this. I think what have the most difficulty in is attaching expectations to the outcome of my expressions. I’m most always disappointed and frustrated when I do that. Which then causes me to clam up and stop expressing my needs and desires until they turn to resentments and then the I express them more as demands which causes more strife. It’s a vicious cycle, that I’ve GOT to break!!
I think one of the big problem is my H and I really lack emotional intimacy. We do maintain wonderful physical intimacy which I’m truly grateful for, but I hunger for the emotional intimacy. I long for it, I need it. I don’t know how to obtain it. We’ve never really had it. We have a friendship and comradery as you and your wife do, but it’s not to the core. I’m such a open person an my H is not at all, I can even remember once early on in our R when I tried to share something very personal and he asked me to stop. I started to more closed after that even though it’s not my nature. I think I was afraid of H’s response if I was too open. He is very closed when it comes to emotions and personal thoughts and feelings. It’s very hard to deal with especially now, dealing with all that we are. I just don’t know how to gain that intimacy. It is definitely a stumbling block in rebuilding the M. It’s very frustrating.
I’ll have think on JJ’s suggestion.
I think your doing really good Z, you have such a great attitude and a lot of wisdom. I really like your take on things. Thanks for you advice on my thread by the way. I think you are right on target with why it was such a blow-out. I just wish I’d read your advice sooner. Oh well. H and I had a good night regardless. I guess it’s blown over.
So, by taking more notice of what works in "safe" areas of the R, and in other more social R's I have, I can notice how to apply the techniques I already use to my marital R. Is that the gist of what you mean?
Pretty much, Z. Kinda along the lines of "practice makes perfect"!
Gives you good practice on talking about what may be some uncomfortable, revealing stuff for you, and gives her good practice on listening without fixing. Some things that I think that ALL of us could better learn to do.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Quote: I think that gets in my way....that those nasty thoughts of revenge and self-righteousness prevent a warm interaction.
jorge, wouldn't the best form of revenge and self-righteousness be to show her what a wonderful warm loving accepting understanding and forgiving man she hurt?
Sounds good to me, LL! Now, if only I could be a wonderful warm loving accepting understanding and forgiving man. Working on it, tho....
And trying to do so without trying to "Show her" what she's missing. Isn't that a key, Z? To be genuinely all those things, not to do so as a means to an end?
j, knowing that the end does not justify the means.....
Well, finding a "neutral" subject HAS been easy lately. Just hasn't gotten into "controversial" stuff, or hasn't really gotten near conflict. I suppose that's good, because it just makes for more practice just interacting, but a bit of successful conflict resolution (on a small scale, or course) would help pave the way for conflict resolution on a greater plane.
W and I are immersed in a whirl wind home renovation. Total gut reno of a basement bedroom, and major decoration of a first floor bedroom and 2 bathrooms. We are doing all the work ourselves, she and I. I even taught her how to tape sheetrock the other day, and she's pretty good!!! So, with that come hundreds of little joint or separate decisions. There's been health debate and agreement in joint decisions, support for sepatate decisions, and positive, constructive discussions. Good, open support for each other's contributions. A mutual goal, as it were, and it has been keeping her feeling that she has to spend time at home.
The reason for all this is that her father will be moving in with us shortly, at my suggestion. He is just not capable of living by himself any more, and I couldn't face the thought of just putting him in a home, while W and her brother were seriously considering that. I've received much relieved gratitude from both for my suggestion he live with us. They didn't want him to go into a home, but saw no other practical choice. I offered a viable, practical solution, that included some reno to our house, and I've dived in with full enthusiasm...
On the Physical Intimacy front, physical affection and contact are definately on the increase. Since the C session where it was discussed, every night in bed, we always "snuggle". No more distance, no more roll over with back to each and avoidance. Always a little hug, a leg over leg. No sex, but nice, genuine affection and cuddling. Lot's of hugs, initiated by both of us. Well, more by me, but without any withdrawal on her part. And the bedtime snuggles are almost always initiated by here!!!It's really great. I feel more connected that I have in a long, long time.
Thanks for checking in with me. I've been working lately, both on the house, and for "real money" (I'm freelance, which means "unemployed most of the time"), ergo my absense from the board. That, too, is liberating. I often get way too caught up in this place. It's really good to take a mental-health break from time to time...
Working on it, tho....