Ah! When we go snooping! Most of the time it hurts and we are not ready for what we find...but on some rare occasions, it may give us an insight into what is going on in their minds! I have come into some info much similar to what was told to you in counselling...that OM is no longer a big part of the picture...it seems we have perhaps become the OM and we are now giving them what they can not! Sweet revenge I say.
Z, Just finished reading this thread (well, most of it...I am supposed to be working!)
Back in September, you expressed the thoughts that are bugging me right now. Trying to forgive; knowing that the OM contact should be broken off, but not wanting to appear controlling; wondering why her circle of friends don't see what she's doing; how she probably feels that you were the one who needed to accept her continued contact with OM as a sign of trust.
What a story, Z! It sure sounds like all of your efforts are paying off. Keep up the good work!
Thanks everyone for your kind words of support. I'm feeling like I'm breaking new ground, but I'm feeling that I'm doing what's right, what's just.
I'll let you know how it all works out, but it seems to be working out for now.... I just never planned on being in such romantic limbo in my mid forties, I don't know where this is going, of if my marriage will survive. I do know that whatever happens from here on out, it will be by agreement, rather than by reactionary edict. In that regard, I've won.
I've said, or at least eluded to it, before, that I've "busted" the divorce. Now, I'm trying to save the marriage. These are two very big, very different steps. I'm learning that now.
Z! I think it is awesome that you have ""permission" to more openly express those needs, and to ask more questions, and to ask for re-assurance" ! Wow! I'm really amazed by that. How wonderful. It must be a relief. I think this will be the start of really deepening the emotional intimacy between you two. I am really so HAPPY for you. Take her up on the offer. Slowly, but surely.
Z- the news of your slow steps forward are exciting. As I have found out recently, we have to decide when to keep quiet and when we have a right to express our feelings. I think my h sees the silence as I don't care, and I thought I was givng him more space, so I am slowly talking more without crowding. Great work, keep it up. Sue
I think you've made an important discovery about talking. There is a very fine line between attempting to communicate and pursuing, and I have found it's all about our ego, our need to be heard, our need to "get even".
I found it so easy and gratifying to "let loose" and get all my stuff off my chest in the beginning. She just withdrew more. Then, I did the opposite and tried going "dark" as so frequently advocated on the board, especially in Newcomers. I found "dark" flat out didn't work in my sitch. In fact it was read as "indifference" (W's term) to our R, to her affair, to what ever she did. It took my respond to her hiring a lawyer and threatening to file to break down the wall of silence between us. Exhasperated, I shouted at her that if she filed, she would have to leave, since I refused to live with OM's girlfriend any longer. Can you imagine that she said "I didn't know you felt that way..."? I then figured I had gone just a little too dark, even though we still lived in the same house...
I struggle now with questions... I've learned to take a "lawyerly" approach to questions... Don't ask any question you don't already know the answer to, because you might hear something you don't want to. So, I replace questions with requests, or "I" statements about how I'd like to have something be. I'm not sure how well this is working, because I've lost the probative quality of questions, particularly when trying to find out what she needs from me.
It's still a work in progress. But, I am able to communitate what I'm thinking about, and she sees that I'm NOT indifferent, though it's clear that I'm often reluctant to bring some things up. What's interesting is that it's also clear then that if she wants me to know something, she has to tell me. It's beginning to become very clear to me that it's a lot safer for me to open up, and she is more and more receptive to new items. At the very least, it's beginning to be a healthier, more open communication. Still a ways to go, but it's getting better. I do see a snowball effect starting. Key, I think, is to be respectful of her feelings, of her space, still letting her know my needs and thoughts while avoiding placing any responsibility for my feelings and thoughts on her.
Funny isn't it that we are discovering all these new things along the way.Don't talk, do talk, be cool, be warm...bottom line we have to try little things, but in the right way. Only we know our spouses, one thing might not work for all, I was going to ask h if he has looked at anymore apartment, but am hesitant, yet last week he said to me "you have not asked me anymore about getting an apt" I respned " I figured when you were ready to tell me you would"and he actually took me by the one he looked at.(I know I told this somewhere here, so sorry if a repeat) There are so many places to post, I forget what I say to who!! HAve a great Friday Sue
z, glad to hear things are going well for you and that you are finding a new comfort with w in your sit. it is very difficult to figure out what to say and what not to say and the most important when to say it.
and then of course there is the interperting what they say. relationships are such hard work, starting over is even harder. thank you for once again helping me in my sit, I am having a difficult time with all this. I just want peace and right now I am the only one in my way. LL
Quote: be respectful of her feelings, of her space, still letting her know my needs and thoughts while avoiding placing any responsibility for my feelings and thoughts on her.
How are you doing in this regard, Z?
I agree with you there. If that isn't done first, everything else falls apart. Doesn't matter whether you're dark or not.
I practiced the first part of the quote last night while trick-or-treating with W and the boys, but left out the part about letting her know my needs and thoughts. She asked once about work...but I dodged the issue and let her do the talking. So it was a one-sided affair....not too engrossing. Felt empty afterward.
It's going slowly, but positively. I have realized I have a really big problem here. I explained it in our last C session as a reluctance to apply any pressure to W so to avoid creating a pursuit/distance dynamic. I told the C that I had probably read too much, and that I understood that very well. C nodded and said that it is possible I could but handled correctly it was essential. She offered me an individual session to work on it. I'm trying it my own way first, but I might take her up on it.
I see the problem is that I first must overcome my fear of creating this dynamic, while remembering that I still have a right to express my needs and desires. I must keep in perspective that just because I have needs and desires and preferenced, W has no obligation to fulfill them. That's her choice and cannot be forced. So, I must remember to not attach any expectations of outcome to my expressions, but instead offer my expressions in the interest of open communication and letting go of things that could turn to resentments of I keep storing them up. This is a very fine line. I have to release the expressions of desire and need, but not expect them to be met, and do so so it's clear to W what I need, but accept that it's her choice to respond.
This is where I say it's still a work in progress... HELP!!! I'm doing fine with it so far...
I'm doing fine with it so far...