The fat lady is warming up....

[OldFool]

I_Wanna_Make_It_Work said:
"I know from your posts there are a ton of issues that caused you to even question if you wanted to try to save it. I didn't have these thoughts yet. I was in LRT right through to Tuesday - and now there seems to be a breakthrough."

Does that mean you are looking at your WAW and M with new, perhaps more objective, eyes? For me, I didn't see the change coming...it just seemed to kind of happen one day. I suddenly started thinking, "What would happen if she came back right now?" and I realized I wouldn't want her back.

I may have emotionally neglected my WAW, but I was never mean, cruel, or hostile. She wanted for nothing (at least materially) and I did more than my half of the household chores. I was financially responsible, faithful and totally devoted to our M, sexually unselfish, thoughtful, caring, and even left the toilet seat down.

I realized that I wanted that in return. That I wanted...and deserved...a wife that loved me unconditionally as I did her, that was as committed to our M as I was, that would be faithful to me as I was to her, and that was willing to do the "heavy lifting" rather than taking the easy way out or looking to me to solve her problems.

When I came to realize this, it changed everything for me. Don't get me wrong, I hope and pray that my WAW is able to be that person again and I hope and pray that in two years I'll be posting here on how wonderful it is to have my W back. But I'm no longer willing to get my W back at *any* cost. And that's the difference.

What has changed for you?

[OldFool]

alamogirl:

OK. Now to your sitch. I'm glad to hear from you. I'd wondered if you were doing OK. A lot has happened to you and it sounds like it's been tough. I'm sorry to hear it.

That having been said, I think you're running ahead of yourself. If I understand correctly, you're barely a month in since the D was filed and you're into pretty heavy R talk, reasoning, letters, books, the works. I think it's way (way!) too early for that. I can't say what effect it had, but if I had to bet, I'd bet (at the very least) it didn't move you forward. The fact you haven't heard anything back from your H may be an indication of that.

From your comments, you don't think DBing was working so, by your own admission, you took another route. Again, I can't say whether DBing was working or not...but if you're e-mailing R questions, having R talks, etc. I don't think you've done the LRT long enough to be able to determine this with any level of certainty.

For example, look at my sitch. I'm over two months since W filed for D and I'm barely considering talking to her. I've been darker than a moonless night for eight weeks and this Monday (two months to the day the D papers were drawn up) was the *first* time my WAW admitted that she might have made some poor decisions (and even then, she was probably speaking only of the PA...not the D).

With regard to the D, specifically, give him what he wants. You can't prevent this from happening and as long as you do, you're the problem...the thing that stands between him and what he thinks he wants. That makes you the enemy and that's not what you want.

When my W filed and had me served, I was in the shower and couldn't get to the door. I guessed what was up (but didn't know) and called her attorney. He didn't want to talk to me so I told his secretary that I thought he'd tried to have me served and that I would be at x from y to z and could be served there. He must have about dropped his teeth because he called me back directly and said my W had told him I'd fight being served. I said nothing could be further from the truth and that I'd be happy to accept service at a mutually convenient time/place rather than have a server chase me all over hell's half acre.

I also wrote a letter to my WAW telling her what I would be saying about our divorce to our mutual friends, that I tried to give her a good life and was sorry I failed to do so, and that I would not obstruct the D, would agree to any reasonable financial settlement, and would do nothing to prevent her from obtaining that which she so earnestly sought.

Then I went dark...real dark. Now I'm no longer the person who's making her life miserable. I'm not preventing her from getting what she wants. Now if she's unhappy about the D, she has only herself to blame. If she's sad about the holidays, she has to look in the mirror.

There's an old saying, "Be careful what you wish for; you might just get it". It's also common knowledge that we often want what we can't have. Make sure you put these to use *for* you...not against you. Protect yourself, but go along with the D. You can't stop it anyway...so turn it on its head.

I'm reminded of a story about a guy who was depressed and had tried to commit suicide several times...unsuccessfully. In the hospital, a minister asked him why he kept trying to kill himself and what he could do so he would stop trying. The man said he had nothing to live for and that he'd never stop trying. So the minister said, "OK. If you're that determined, then I'll help you. No one should die alone." And with that, he began to smother the depressed man. You can guess the end of this. Once he wasn't fighting everyone else to die, and someone began "helping" him get what he claimed he wanted, he suddenly began fighting for his life. I'm sure you can see the parallels.

Finally, getting served sucks. There's nothing like reading a document that starts with "John Doe vs. Jane Doe in the matter of dissolution of marriage" (or something to that effect). But don't look at it as the beginning of the end. True, it may be. But you have time to make changes (my changes *all* came after the D was filed). It is a bump in the road, but look at it as an opportunity to get down to the LRT and set some (very) small goals.

When you've gone dark and truly disengaged, you'll see things with clearer eyes. I have found this to be true and it sounds like I_Wanna_Make_It_Work is transitioning as well. It's a good place to be. When you and your WAH are both there, you can each make a conscious decision as to whether you want to save the M based on reason and objective evaluation...not out of desperate need and rejection. It's hard to see that from where you are, but trust me, you can get there and it will be a better place.

I think of you often and pray for you and your sitch. Please keep us up to date and give yourself a hug from all of us here.

Peace, patience, and strength to you through this holiday season.

[tigerleland]

I agree with you OF. I am just starting to get to that place of clearheadedness. My thoughts are way different, and I think my W may notice the chance when we speak from now on.

[OldFool]

tigerleland:

I've been meaning to thank you for that great quote from Shakespeare. I've got it posted on my monitor for inspiration.

[alamogirl]

Hey OldFool,

Thanks for your input/insight. I know you are going through your own situation, but you always provide good feedback, so 'thanks!"

I thought I had been doing everything right. Of course, when we initially broke up, I tried to reason with him. Fortunately, I found this site a few days later. Actually, I found the site through one of my subscription magazines, "Redbook." There was a blurp about making changes within yourself before trying to change everything else. It was by Michele W. Davis. That's when I looked her up, and voila...I found the website.

I have lots of regrets, like not doing anything about our problems when I started seeing signs at 10 years of marriage. I guess our problems were masked by our good friendship. I figured that since we got along so well, we would be able to get through this lull.

Even after we separated, we were still communicating almost daily, visiting, going out, e-mailing, etc. I know my letter probably freaked him out because I've never written anything like that before . Maybe it was too soon to tell him all those things, but I wanted to give him something to think about...after all, it was he who said he would give our conversation some thought.

I look forward to this "dark" place you mentioned. I know that I'm not there yet. If my H called today, I would be back with him in a heartbeat. Of course, there would have to be stipulations...marriage counseling, maybe some psychiatric treatment for H for his personal demons. I know I'm asking a lot. I just feel so betrayed. This man who I loved and trusted is turning my life upside down.

Have you read the book, "Stop your Divorce" by [censored]? He talks about emotional divorce vs legal divorce. The reason I ask is because you said to give my H what he wants and let the divorce happen. That's what Homer says in his book. Homer says that too often, people think that just because the legal divorce happened, that they can't reunite later on. I've thought about that myself. What if a year or so down the line, my WAH wants to reunite?

I'm sorry to be rambling on and on. Well, OldFool, my friend, I wish you a very warm and safe holiday. And to the others who have responded to me on this thread, thank you and have a safe and warm holiday.

All my best,
alamogirl

[OldFool]

alamogirl:

You're welcome. I don't have that much wisdom to share...but what little I do, I'm happy to pass along to you.

I hear you about the "reasoning" thing. I tried it too...with about as much success as you had. At that time, I didn't realize that logical part of my WAW's brain had long since shut down and emotion was firmly in the driver's seat.

I also know what you say about the "lull". I knew we were going through a low point, but everyone I knew said every M goes through one (and often more). As a result, like you, I figured we'd get/work through it somehow. I had no idea how far out the door my WAW was!

If you're talking about stipulations...then you've moved beyond the initial "I want him/her back no matter what" stage. That's probably good. Ultimately, I think you'll come to the realization that the only way you can probably put things back together is if both parties come to the table of their own free will and having personally developed enough that stipulations are not required.

I know that's a fine distinction, but I think it's an important one. No one can function for long by living to a set of stipulations. You can keep it up for a while, but if the change isn't coming from inside, eventually the facade will crack and things will start to fall apart. You'll know if/when it's right to put things together because your WAH will work to come up with strategies to meet your needs (and you, his) without the need for either of you to stipulate tactical methods.

For example, my WAW had a PA with a co-worker. One of my requirements for getting back together is her leaving her job and finding another (I don't think I can trust her in that environment...especially since many of her co-workers knew of, and condoned, the A).

I'm not making that a stipulation, mind you. Rather, it will be one of the signals that says my WAW is ready to take the M seriously and invest in it. If she is, she'll understand she has violated my trust and that she will have to take steps to rebuild it and that this is a logical step in so doing. It will come from her, meeting my need for trust...not from me telling her that if she wants to reconcile she'll have to leave her job.

No, I haven't read "Stop Your Divorce". But it sounds like the author is on the right track. The "emotional" vs "legal" divorce is an interesting concept (thanks for sharing it with me). I think it is true that some people emotionally divorce (i.e. disconnect, not just disengage) before the legal divorce and some "hang on" (so to speak) for months or even years after the legal divorce.

When you succumb to the emotional divorce may be dependent upon your satisfaction with the M near the end, your willingness to work on leaving a door open, your level of patience, and your tolerance for pain. At any rate, I passed the idea along to tigerleland in his own thread as I think it might apply to him right now.

Ramble on, my friend (I do too). As it often does in Oregon during the winter, it is raining and gloomy. A natural mirror of my own mood. While I have been "down" this season, I have not been nearly as sad or weepy as I'd expected and consider that movement forward. My best to you. Have a very merry Christmas.

[alamogirl]

Hi OldFool,

I had a slight relapse the other day. I have a friend whose always been very supportive and positive, so I enjoy being around her. She's been through what we've all been through. After 23 years of marriage, her H told her that he was in love with someone else and left her. He cut her off cold turkey. He's now on wife #3. My friend is still healing after 4 years!

Anyway, she asked me if I had heard anything from my H. She knows about the letter I sent him, etc. She was very surprised that he had not called. Then she said it..."maybe he does have someone else." PUNCH IN THE GUT! Of course, that thought has crossed my mind, but to hear those words come out of my friend, OUCH! She didn't mean any harm and was just trying to make sense of all this. Later that evening, I was pretty bummed out. I had trouble sleeping, something I rarely have a problem with.

Anyway, I just got word from my sister that she and her family are staying in town for New Year's Eve (NYE). Earlier, they were going to Dallas to babysit their grandson but those plans have been nixed. I'm a little relieved because for the first time, I was facing spending NYE alone.

Changing the subject, I have to tell you that the main reason this thread caught my attention is because one of our local newscasters, Dan Cook, is credited of coining the phrase, "The opera ain't over until the fat lady sings."

I live in San Antonio, and last (NBA) season, we were wondering if our beloved San Antonio Spurs were going to make it to the championships. When they started really screwing up, my sis sent me and my siblings an e-mail titled, "Uh Oh, the fat lady is warming up." So, when I read the title of your thread, I just had to chuckle and click on it, and I'm glad I did. You've been so much help to me .

Going back to the dreaded subject, I still have not read the summons. It's sitting on my dresser. I've sort of skimmed through it, but that's it. I cannot bring myself to read it--I'm just going to wait until I consult a lawyer.

May the new year bring good health, happiness and laughter to you and everyone on these boards.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

All my best,
alamogirl

[OldFool]

Well, I'm glad you clicked on my link too...no matter how funny the reason for doing so. And I'm glad I've "helped" you (though I don't really see how).

I'm happy you'll have someone to spend NYE with. I will be alone...or at least not with family or friends. I will ring in the new year listening to a NYE performance of a local group and hoping to find a pretty brunette to flirt with. Still, I don't expect it to take the sting out of not having my W to kiss at the stroke of midnight.

My prayer is that 2007 will bring to me, if not happiness, then at least peace. My best to you. HNY!

[alamogirl]

Hey OldFool,

Happy New Year! Hope your holiday was good.

What do you make of this? Remember I told you that I had not heard from my H, well, last Sat, 30 Dec 06, I was on the phone with my sis when I heard my phone click but I didn't answer. After I was able to check who called, it was my H. He left the weirdest message. He said, "Hi, I had a dream about you last night that you called. I know that's not going to happen." His voice sounded quivery . I'm thinking, "WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT?"

When I got home, I called him back. I asked him why he left that message, and his response was that because he hadn't heard from me in a while. I told him, "The last time we spoke, you had some thinking to do." When I asked him why he didn't acknowledge my letter, he said that I didn't ask him to...DUH! Then he said that I sounded demanding in that letter. He was shopping at Lowes, so he said that he would call me back later. Well, he didn't. I was hoping to discuss our situation further.

I spent NYE at my sis house, and I thought that maybe, just maybe, he would call after midnight...nada . I got home around 2:00 am, and there were no messages on my voice mail. He's working for this guy right now while he's on break from school. He's going to be out of town until Friday.

Since then, I've really been PO'd! Now, he's toying with my emotions. How dare he tell me that he's going to call, and he doesn't! At first, I didn't think he had someone else, but I think he does now. What a way to start a relationship.

I went to see a lawyer today. He sounds like a barracuda. Damn, these things are expensive. His retainer is $2K.

How are things going with you?

All my best,
alamogirl

[faithfull]

Hi Old Fool,

I am posted in the WAW section and haven't posted for a while, probably won't anymore. I have accepted her decision to divorce and now know that it is necessary. Eight years ago my wife had an EA with another woman and I found out about it. We went to counseling for a while and she said the homosexual desires were gone. I had a very difficult time with this especially since I was never given an apology and was expected to sweep it under the rug. We survived eight more years together and periodically I would question her if the desires were still there. I was always told that they were gone and she didn't want to talk about it. There was no intimacy in our marriage and it turned me into a jealous, questioning husband. I was never told anything so I would constantly have to dig for answers. This was no way for either of us to live our lives but I couldn't figure out why she wouldn't talk to her best friend and partner. The sex was great so I didn't think there were homosexual desires still. Our marriage was not good, we were both drinking way too much ( hinesight shows we were both depressed, a viscous cycle with depression and alcohol )and ended up arguing constantly. She finally left in Sept, 06 and shortly after I discovered she had been engaged in a lesbian affair. She denied it saying this person was persuing her and didn't talk to me for two months about our marriage. I was devistated. In the last month we have talked a little and I have found out that she has had these desires for the last eight years and battleing them on her own. This explains alot. I have excepted the fact that we have to get divorced and she is in counseling trying to figure out her sexual orientation. We have actually had more intimate conversation in the last month than we had in the last twelve years. It's a shame we couldn't have talked years ago. She said hinesight is 20/20 and agrees things could have been different had we talked, but it's completely out of my hands. I don't believe in homosexuality, I know she can't help her desires ( I believe some of the things that took place in her childhood, which I didn't know about until a month ago, has caused these desires ) but acting on them is a choice. I will have the difficulty of my son possibly being raised for half of his life by lesbians, I know she will be a good mother but it goes against my beliefs and the way I want my son to be raised. God will direct me on my decisions. Niether one of us have hate toward the other and we're both empathetic toward each other and I'm sure we'll remain friends. We both still cry when we discuss the good times we had together but know we must move on. I now feel like i'm in the closet that my wife has partially stepped out of. I know we will both be much happier in the future and I continue to pray that she returns to her heavenly family. So much for my story. I will now pay close attention to the divorce section of this site because even though I know my situation is completely out of my hands, I still have to deal with the loss of the woman I love. Please pray for my family as I will for yours.