No. And I don't speak with her on the phone either. She wants more contact...but I've resisted up to this point because I didn't want to get dragged into anything and because I felt the counselor should hear anything that we had to say.
I have a personal session scheduled for the first week in Jan. so I'll probably discuss this at that time. Right now I'm not sure what to do and have a feeling that after all the complaining about what I did and didn't do, this is all going to come down to the fact that my WAW went into a kind of MLC and has come out the other side a different person who doesn't share my goals and values any more.
If so, there's really nothing to save. My values are who I am and I can't forsake them for anyone...even the WAW I love so dearly. If it weren't for this issue, I'd be much happier and encouraged by the events that have recently transpired.
OF - No need to go into details if you don't want to ... but from your last posting, it seems that the marriage may be salvagable, but you're hesitant because of a change in her values. Is there no possibility of her coming around? Are these "core value" values (as in moral v immoral), or just extreme differences of opinion? I hate to hear this.
Me - 43 and She -36. No kids. Married 7 yrs - Together 14 yrs
Don't worry...I'll talk about anything. Once you've been hurt to the core, you stop being afraid of anything else. In a way, it's rather liberating (but what a price to pay for liberation). Frankly, there's no longer any question I can think of that someone could ask that I would fear. So ask away!
Our joint counseling session last night was the toughest yet...at least for me. I started off by validating her desire to exit the M given her view of it. This was very difficult to do while also saying I saw it much differently and disagreed with her choice of response. But I think I made it.
Then I answered the counselor's question as to why I always seemed to be "on edge" in our sessions. The answer was, fear of my W. I'm not afraid of anything...so recognizing this AND saying it were in the top five hardest things I've ever done. But it's true. She represents such hurt and pain that being in her presence makes me afraid (in a kind of non-specific way) much as you would be fearful if you saw a neighbor who, every time you passed, punched you in the mouth.
At any rate, my WAW professed surprise at this (which is probably true), but we didn't linger on the topic as the counselor wanted to talk about the night we divided the pictures and Christmas ornaments.
I said it was the worst night of my life and that the only thing I saw from my WAW was anger, hatred, and an ice coldness that I'd never known her to be capable of. In turn, my WAW said she and her parents (who were with her) all knew I would be served with the D in 24 to 48 hrs. and didn't know what to do except to get her remaining things out of the house before I was served and "went crazy".
I truly don't understand this apprehension on their part considering I'd discovered the affair three weeks before and had helped my WAW pack her things and move out of the house. If I were going to "go crazy", I think I'd have done so long before then (but I don't think any of them were really thinking rationally at that point).
At any rate, my WAW said she was afraid she'd fall apart and wouldn't go through with it so she wanted to "be flat" through the whole thing but found she didn't know how to be flat and "so it probably came off as anger" (it certainly did!). She said she left as fast as she could (also true) and cried all the way back to her apartment.
This was a surprise for me on two levels. First, I didn't think she had a heart left with which to feel anything anymore...especially sadness. Second, I can't figure out how someone who feels *that* bad about something they are doing doesn't recognize that the feeling is often a warning that we may be doing something very wrong and that one ought to heed it...not ignore it.
In the discussion surrounding this, she stated that she'd made some very poor decisions this summer (I assume that means the PA, but maybe it means the D, or both, or something else entirely...who knows) and she doesn't know what to do now.
She also said that her folks are "messed up over this" and that the holidays have been very hard on her because as she shops, she sees things she would normally buy for me...but then realizes she can't. The latter has been so true for me as well and I validated by telling her so. It was all very hard, and painful, and sad, and horrible.
And yet, all good...right? Well, not so fast. I think she may harbor some feelings of love and caring somewhere in there and I agree that there is a slim chance the M can be saved. But I've been so focused on keeping my WAW from obliterating any hope of reconciling while we work on things, I haven't considered what to do if that happens.
I'm not trying to predict the future, I don't know what my WAW is (or is not) capable of now or in the future, and I don't know what her values are. But I can look at things she has said, choices and decisions she has made, and where she has focused her attention.
When I look at that, I see her interested in money, things, and her career (to the exclusion of nearly everything else). I see her choose infidelity, deceit, selfishness, and cruelty. These are not values I hold dear. I have always valued simplicity, honor, fidelity, devotion to family, being satisfied with what you have, self-sacrifice, spiritual growth, choosing happiness over resentment, etc.
They say where there's life, there's hope and as long as my WAW is breathing, there's a chance she will "come around". But these appear to be some fundamental differences and they are supported by statements she made before I discovered the PA such as "You're a better person than I am" (stated as an excuse for doing or saying something wrong), "You're too principled", "I can't be that person any more" (referring to the WAW I loved who *did* share these values with me), and "I don't think we want the same things any more".
So perhaps it's not too hard so see why I might be a bit pessimistic. I'd like to think she could have a spiritual re-awakening and recognize the importance of choosing love and choosing happiness. But these are big concepts to understand and she's trying to tackle all of them at the same time (along with some important self-esteem issues). That might be just a bit much to expect of one person who, herself, has claimed to be confused for several months now.
I'm not sure the term "hesitant" is quite right, but I am realistic about the chance that we can identify, work through, correct, and move beyond our problems at a pace that won't leave one of us behind and very little foundation upon which to rebuild the M.
Or perhaps I'm just in a glass-half-empty kind of mood.
I so agree with you what you said that if your wife is feeling bad about the whole situation, then you all must be doing something wrong.
I had hoped to post good news, but my situation isn't getting any better.
Several days after H filed D papers, we actually had lunch (21 Nov), and it was like old times . Anyway, let me back up. About two days before we had lunch, he called me to answer some questions I had e-mailed him (again ). After he finished answering my questions, he asked me if I was angry at him. I responded by saying that I was disappointed in him. He opened the door to a discussion about our marriage, so I took advantage of it. He had already filed for D so what did I have to lose, right?
I told him that I thought we were making a big mistake, and then I gave him reasons why. I told him that I was reading a book (Divorce Remedy) and talked about the first chapter in the book regarding the divorce trap. He seemed to be receptive to the conversation. I thought he was going to cut me off. After I was done, he said that he would give what I said some thought. At that very moment, I felt a glimmer of hope. I felt that he had cracked open the door just a tad. I told him that I was going to e-mail him the first chapter of the book. I also told him that I was going to mail him something. He gave me his address without hesitation.
I wrote him a 6-page handwritten letter. In it, I merely reiterated what the first chapter of DR discussed. I gave him more examples why I thought we should work things out. I sent it "priority," and it was delivered the Friday after Thanksgiving (24 Nov). I don't know when he read my letter but I haven't heard a peep from him since the day I called to ask him for his address (22 Nov). I know I went against the rules of DB, but following DB wasn't working either .
I reasoned that he was waiting to read my letter after finals, which was last week. But still, I thought that maybe he would have at least sent an e-mail acknowledging the package. My therapist thought it was very disrespectful of him to diss me like that.
We stopped attending joint counseling; however, I'm still attending with my own therapist. BTW, my therapist suggested that I read the same book you purchased about the languages of love.
Anyway, it's been more than a month since my H filed for divorce. You know, I was even hoping that he had asked his lawyer to hold back on my summons. But, no such luck. Today, I got the "call." I told the "server" that I couldn't get out of work just yet, and that I had explained to my H's lawyer, that I wanted to be served at home. Needless to say, I didn't get served today. Hopefully, he'll call tomorrow, and we can make some kind of arrangement to meet. I have to admit that even though I knew about the filing, it felt like someone punched me in the gut when the "caller" identified himself. The whole situation caught me off guard. I feel like crap.
I don't know how much longer I can remain positive. At this point, should I just take the summons as my H's way of saying, "Let's go ahead with the divorce," or should I wait until I hear something from him? It's so unlike him not to call, ya know? You must be thinking that I'm nuts!
It's just that I know in my heart that we're making a terrible mistake. Right now, he can't see it, but in time, he will. Our marriage is salvageable. I think I would feel better if it wasn't. At least I would know that we were divorcing for a good reason.
All my best,
alamogirl
Me - 48 (at time of 1st bomb) H - 43 married - 16 Jul 94 no children 1st bomb - (said he was leaving) - 3 Jun 06 2nd bomb (said he was ready to file) - 10 Nov 06 H filed divorce - 17 Nov 06 Divorce finalized - 20 Jul 07
I was wondering what was happening to you. I'll give you a full reponse later. Right now I've got my own little crisis.
My WAW left a small gift and card on my porch and a voice mail ending with, "Call me if you want". We haven't been communicating (outside the occasional e-mail) outside of joint counseling for nearly a couple months now. She's hinted at wanting more communication...but I've been so into the LRT, I've resisted (not sure what it would accomplish, fear of saying something wrong, backsliding, etc.).
As noted above, she may be starting to really realize what she's done to me (see the "really bad decisions" comment in a prior post). In turn, she may be projecting onto me what she would be feeling if the roles were reversed and wondering if I'm just done with her...forever. She's also said Christmas has been hard on her (and she reiterated that in the card).
I don't want to get into anything, but with the gift and another invitation to talk, I'm afraid if I don't call her, she may believe that I won't have anything to do with her anymore (which is, of course, not the case).
So I'm considering my options. I think they are as follows:
1. Ignore the whole thing. 2. Send a card later with a basic thank you. 3. Call her and try to DB. Validate her sadness, thank her for the gift, try to get the &#^&*# off the phone as soon as possible without being abrupt.
I think I've got to do the latter...but I can't say as I want to. So I either need advice (that I should do something else) or encouragement to do what I think I have to but don't want to do.
I am no expert but I would say that calling her and validating her sadness and thanking her for the gift would be a good idea. Then if you feel you should get off the phone ASAP do that. But I guess from a purely woman's standpoint, I would not feel good about putting myself out there with a small gift and not at least getting an acknowledgement.
Everything happens for a reason, maybe Dad needs to find that it isn't better out there, he needs to realize how good he had it here. Maybe he will find God and that is the most important thing when he finds Him he will know he is supposed to come home.
OF - I agree with ILUV and your own opinion. I think you MUST call, acknowledge the gift, validate, and then get off the phone and leave her wanting more. I know from your posts there are a ton of issues that caused you to even question if you wanted to try to save it. I didn't have these thoughts yet. I was in LRT right through to Tuesday - and now there seems to be a breakthrough. You have to leave the door open a little bit and make it a "safe place" for the W to return. Though you had previous doubts, I'm sure you really want to save the M. You, of all people, who have given me some great guidance, know that you can address the other stuff that lead up to the breakup at some other point - if she wants to return to the M. You owe it to yourself, your W and your M to crack open the door and see if she'll come in.
DR notes that the LRT "wont cure the fundamental problems" in a marriage. "It's simply a method of putting a halt to a dynamic." You are there. Now do something.
Me - 43 and She -36. No kids. Married 7 yrs - Together 14 yrs
I understand you have your own situation to tend to. I'm patient .
Gosh, I don't understand your wife. Why leave a gift and tell you Christmas has been hard? Why make it more painful for you? Isn't it funny (not in a ha ha sort of way) that your WAW is trying to communicate with you, while my WAH isn't even trying. That goes to show how differently each situation is.
I know that if my WAH sent me a gift, I would acknowledge it, which is why I'm upset that my WAH hasn't acknowledged my letter.
Whatever you decide, I'm sure that it will be the right decision for you.
BTW, I did get served later that evening. It was around 8:00 pm when I got the "2nd call." I gave him directions to my house, and he was ringing my doorbell at 8:30 pm. I was too upset to post about it . I'm feeling much better today. I haven't read it...it's just sitting there on top of my dresser. I guess I'll let my lawyer read it first. I have 21 days to respond...I'll have to start making some phone calls soon.
All my best, alamogirl
Me - 48 (at time of 1st bomb) H - 43 married - 16 Jul 94 no children 1st bomb - (said he was leaving) - 3 Jun 06 2nd bomb (said he was ready to file) - 10 Nov 06 H filed divorce - 17 Nov 06 Divorce finalized - 20 Jul 07
I don't know your situation but I got served in February. I know how hard it is. But don't lose complete hope. My D is supposed to go to trial on January 25. I will still not completely close the door until H marries someone else. Something is telling me that it is not over. H has an OW but I know that she is just a bandaid. In fact, my new nickname for her is "Curad." She was a close friend of ours and not in the picture when H filed. H made a move toward me and I am sad to say I completely overreacted which pushed him away. Shortly after, he began dating this so-called friend. She and her XH were friends of ours and OW's H filed in March and their D was final in September. OW glued herself to my H in July because she is desparate not to be alone and I believe she is going through her own MLC. I am willing to go on with my life as if H will not be in it but be willing to work on our R if the opportunity presents itself.
I am so sorry that you are going through this. It is hard but it really does get better.
Everything happens for a reason, maybe Dad needs to find that it isn't better out there, he needs to realize how good he had it here. Maybe he will find God and that is the most important thing when he finds Him he will know he is supposed to come home.
Thanks for the encouragement. I decided to call her cell...but she didn't answer. It didn't drop right into VM so it was on and she usually has it with her everywhere she goes so it's kind of interesting. Perhaps she accidentally left it home or perhaps she was with the OM or perhaps she didn't want to take *my* call (wouldn't that be funny!).
At any rate, I didn't get into any issues, just said I got the gift, that it was thoughtful, hoped she had a nice holiday, to say "Hi" to her folks for me if she saw/spoke with them, and that I'd see her after the first of the year.
I didn't do great (remember...I've been so dark it hasn't been funny), but I don't think I was too bad. Kept it short, upbeat, light, and no mention of us, R, M, etc.
I guess now I wait. Next counseling for each of us (individually) is in first week of Jan. At that point, we decide if we want to continue doing some joint counseling. Should be interesting. The 90-day waiting period for the D comes up the middle of the month. I suspect that what happens then will be telling.
. Anyway, let me back up. About two days before we had lunch, he called me to answer some questions I had e-mailed him (again 
). After he finished answering my questions, he asked me if I was angry at him. I responded by saying that I was disappointed in him. He opened the door to a discussion about our marriage, so I took advantage of it. He had already filed for D so what did I have to lose, right?