Need advice

[ANewMe]

He even told me he just picks stuff up and puts it away as walks past it. OK - then tell me why he could leave things laying around for 2 months and never put them away when we lived together. All you had to do was look at his office and garage - by a long shot, the two most trashed rooms in the house...Not to mention the few things he's taken out/used when he's been at the house and not put them away, just this past week alone.

My H was the same way and said the same thing when he left.

Lastly, he tells me, he feels like I'm controlling him. When I ask for clarification on that, it's because he can't just take off when he wants to do what he wants.

H said the same thing as he was spending all his time playing golf and hanging out with his bitter divorced younger brother and all his bitter divorced friends.

I was the only responsible adult in the house. I still am but now I don't have to put up with his selfishness on a daily basis.

BTW, no he didn't come over to help put of the Xmas tree, and he still hasn't mentioned Xmas plans of any sort. I'm torn between waiting to see if he asks about Xmas, or if I should ask him, although I keep leaning towards waiting to see if he asks, or indicates he wants to spend Xmas with us or not. Any thoughts on this anyone?

I would make my own Christmas plans and if he asks then you can make the decision about whether you want to include him. I don't think I would wait for him because then you will feel sad if he doesn't ask. Just plans as if he will not be around and try to plan things that sound fun to you.

[want2believe]

Thanks ILUV2Teach!

I'm pretty emotional right now. I do fine when my WAH isn't around, but when I see him sometimes, I just want to be with him so much, that it hurts more than I think it will when acts totally dis-interested in me, like I'm just some casual acquantaince.

I wasn't expecting to see WAH today, but he was at the business when I stopped by to drop something off. I pump had broke. He was nice, but distant. I got one little kiss from him, but I'm not sure if he wanted to kiss me or not.

I have so many questions to ask him about Xmas, but haven't yet. I did ask him if he was going to get a gift for the person he drew from my side of the family, he said yes, but didn't seem to want to talk either. I know he was busy, with his mind on the car wash - but I guess I was hoping for a little more. I'm not sure why, as he's been staying away from me all week, and I haven't been initiating any contact.

I have been read the DB book, and I took a chance and asked him if he wanted to meet for drinks tonight while my oldest S is at baseball practice. He said he had to go, as he was missing a luncheon, and that he probably couldn't as a neighbor had asked him to pick him up and drive him home from his work Xmas party. Then he said he wasn't sure if he had to, he'd let me know. That was at 11:00 this morning, it's now almost 5, and I haven't heard from him. I'm not expecting I will, but I can't seem to stop thinking about him and crying.

I have absolutely no clue if he even wants to spend any part of Xmas with us. I have plans, so I'm not waiting for him, but he hasn't even mentioned spending any time with the boys for Xmas. I don't know if I should mark all the gifts I bought for the boys, from just me, or me and WAH?
Or possible least a couple from both of us? I don't expect a gift from him. It's so hard to even get into the Xmas spirit, but I'm trying.

I called a friend who's going to meet me for a drink tonight while my S is at practice. I'm not waiting for him, but I need to talk this out.

Why is it so hard for me to think postitively about this working out when he treats me like I'm basically nothing to him. I know there are positive things that occur in our interactions, but it just doesn't seem like enough. I guess I want more than he's willing to offer.
Maybe I need to just distance myself more than I have been. I read too much I think into his actions when he does act like he wants to be with me still. It's so hard to act nice and happy, when I feel so dis-appointed that I want to cry around him. I just don't know what is best to do right now, and the holiday's just make it harder.

We got invited to a neighbor's party this Sunday. I want to go, but I don't think WAH will. If I do go, I don't think I'll be able to hold it together, as it has to be pretty obvious to some of them that WAH's truck isn't around much anymore. I'm sure they'll ask what's going on.
How have other people handled this? I guess I may just end up staying away from it, and find something else to do.

[want2believe]

I'm not sure what to do here. My WAH says he wants to spend some time at Christmas with me and our two S's, but he won't tell me when. My brother has asked us down to his place for Xmas, along with one of my other sisters. My S's want to go there. My B and his W are the only one's in the family that know H moved out. No one else has a clue that we are having problems, yet when I tell him he is invited also, he says he needs to stay and watch the business. I don't know what to do right now. Do I stay and spend Xmas eve with him, or do I spend Xmas with him like on Friday night, and go be with some of my family. I don't know what is best, especially as WAH still acts a little distant around me, until I make a move to kiss him. He stayed over two nights in a row this weekend.

It's just so confusing. He's the one that moved out, he's the one that won't tell me what he wants. Its like he wants me to make the decision. I almost feel like he's testing me, yet at the same time I sort of see this a test for him.
Does he want us to potentially work out enough that he'd come with, or drive down separately to spend some time with us.

Part of me wants to write him a letter telling him how I feel, but I don't know if I should. I want this to work out, but I also don't want it to seem like I'm going to just drop all my plans because he suddenly wants me to do something. This is something I usually always did in the past, which I want to change. I just dont' feel like we're at a point where I can really say what I feel yet. He actually started to get mad at me when I tried to explain why I didn't know what I was doing yet, because he hadn't said anything about spending Xmas with us. He's only asked me what my plans are for Xmas. He did then say he wanted to spend some time with the boys and me, but wouldn't indicate when. He appears to be leaving that decision up to me. I keep leaning towards going to my brothers with the kids, mainly because if I stay here to be with him, I have absolutely no idea how much time he'd actually spend with us. Sometimes I feel like he expects me to be able to read his mind. Yet, at the same time, I feel like if I don't stay, our R might regress again. I guess I also feel like WAH is using me. I'm doing all the Xmas shopping, wrapping, mailing. He hasn't done anything.

I'm just not sure yet what to do. Luckily my B and SIL aren't pushing me, as they know I might not know until the last minute. That helps, but really what to I have to loose if we have an early Xmas, and I leave him here alone for a couple of days. I know he's not ready to come back yet.

Any comments are welcome. I need to mull this over in my head some more.

[deb13]

want2believe, i am always a little hesitant to give "advice" because i may be wrong. i can only tell you what i would do. it's Christmas...your h left you. you do what you & the kids want to do-do what you will be most comfortable w/. i was hoping my h would stay over Christmas Eve-he's not. he is coming Christmas morning; but, i had already made up my mind that the kids & i were going to do what we wanted to Christmas Eve & Day and if my h wanted to join us-fine. it has been hard for me & i haven't always been successful; but, i am trying to learn to do things w/o my h and as if my h was not coming home (which he says he's not). the holidays are a time when we as a family have lots of traditions, i think as LBS's we have to decide which traditions to keep & which to let go of and it may also mean starting new ones.
i can't tell you what to do- i am only suggesting that you do what is best & most comfortable for you & your children.
i sorry if i've not helped.
deb

[Bworl]

W2B, count this as one vote towards going to your B and SIL's for Christmas.

I think your husband needs to know that life goes on for you and your children. I also think he needs to know that you are not sitting around waiting for word from him before you make plans.

This doesn't mean that there cannot be time for your husband to spend time with all of you at some point. Personally, I would simply tell him that you received the offer to go there and having no other plans you committed to doing that. If you want to extend the offer of time together after your trip, I think that would be ok.

The common theme that I see in these WAS/MLC spouses is that they seem to think our lives stop while they are not around. I notice that my wife, even as much as she tells me she wants me to move on and be happy, still seems to act as though nothing goes on in our lives when she is not in our presence. It's important to me to let her know that if she plans to wait till the last minute to make plans with us, we may already have plans.

Everyone's situation is different, but this is my take.

[want2believe]

Well, I stayed home and spent Xmas eve with WAH and 2 S's.
I got to thinking about what I had said to him, about family being important to me, and if it really was, then I should be spending it with WAH and kids. Thus I told WAH that we would stay home and spend Xmas eve with him on Friday. My older S also wanted to stay home for Xmas eve, so it wasn't just me involved in this decision. The younger S didn't care.
WAH actually came over Xmas eve morning, and agreed to go shopping with me that morning for some last minute gifts from my mother (she's in a nursing home and can't get out). I think he enjoyed it, as he got to help pick out something for our 2 S's from grandma. He made absolutely no effort to help with Xmas gifts otherwise, except to get gift certificate for his D (29 years). He spent over 6 times more on his D than he did on me for Xmas (he got me one gift, but left the bag with the receipt laying around here at the house). Oh well - I really wasn't expecting much. I spent more on WAH than I probably should have, but we had been getting along better lately, and I just can't turn off who I am because he's being a jerk during this MIL he's going through. Anyway, we spent the rest of the day together with the boys, and he even stayed the night.
I left Xmas day for my B and SIL's house. WAH was still at the house when I left. He gave me kind of a strange look before I left, almost like he wanted me to stay, but I'd already thrown my S and SIL for a loop by agreeing to come a day later so we could spend Xmas eve with WAH. As I was driving away, I called told WAH that he was still welcome to come if he wanted to. He said he had to watch the carwash. His loss in my opinion.

Had a good time at B and SIL's. Came home late Tues night. Called WAH when I left, to ask him something about the business. Not sure if it was me or not, but he seemed disappointed that I wasn't home yet, and his attitude changed. He's been sort of stand offish since I've gotten home. He told me Xmas eve, when I asked, that he liked it when I treated him like I wanted to be with him.
This seems true to what I've noticed also about him, but since I've gotten home, he'll give me a kiss if I lean in for one, but it's a quick one, and he rarely initiates one himself. I know this isn't unexpected, but it is a little disappointing. I'm not letting it get to me though.

I did notice that he got an e-mail from OW the day after Xmas. He had sent her an e-mail first, after they'd apparently been playing phone tag. The notes were written more like they were friends, although her reply confirmed that he'd seen OW back on Dec 2/3, but he hasn't seen her since then. OW stated she'd rather talk to him on the phone though than via e-mail. Today I noticed he got another e-mail from OW. Although OW didn't suggest anything, I got the feeling she was feeling him out about what he would be doing for New Years. I haven't mentioned New Years to WAH at all. I figured I brought up Thanksgiving and Xmas. If he wants to spend New Years with me/us, then he can ask. If he doesn't I have other plans lined up.
Anyway, I wonder if WAH is a little more confused now with OW contacting him again. I got the feeling from OW reply, that WAH had called OW after I told him we could have Xmas early, as I was going to my B/SIL's - before I changed my mind and stayed and spent Xmas eve with WAH. It's got me wondering if I triggered this contact. Don't matter I guess. I'm not going to worry about it, just curious.

I did notice that WAH didn't ask me or the kids what we got for Xmas for other family members at all. He's definitely still into himself. I also noticed he didn't take all his gifts back to his place. He left three of them here at the house (and of course he hasn't put two of them anywhere yet, but left them on on the floor.) I'm not putting them away either.
I know some of how I treat WAH goes against what is suggested for LBS to do when WAH is in a MLC, but it seems to work, and if not, it makes me feel better about the situation overall. We do have sex, and WAH will cuddle afterwards. I can ask him things during these times, and I believe I'm getting a truthful answer. I don't push, and I try to be careful about what I ask. Neighbor yesterday (who knows what is going on), said that he's noticed WAH looking at me differently lately, like someone looks at a girlfriend. Neighbor also said that WAH stated something about how much I've changed lately. Of course neighbor didn't ask how, but stated instead, "Have you ever thought that maybe your the one who's changed?". She didn't want to hear WAH talkiing about me being the problem. Nice of her, but unfortuantely it shut him up entirely also.

Also, WAH always seems to be tired. He doesn't remember things we talked about the day before. Like last night, he left the neighbors at 9pm as he said he couldn't keep his eyes open any longer. He told me he finished printing out some business cards though when he got home. Yet tonight when he stopped by, he fell asleep on the chair, snoring. He really didn't do much of anything today as he was just watching the car wash while they were installing a new garage door on the automatic wash. He also always says he has so many things to do, yet he doesn't get alot of things done he says he will. I know this is normal also for someone in MLC, but I think it's so ironic. I swear he must spend half his time alone, thinking, but then again, he could be spending it on the computer looking at porno (something else I noticed before he moved out, that WAH has a potential problem with).

Bottom line, is I'm doing OK at this point. If he doesn't want to be with me I don't push it, and just go about my business. He took one S over to his place tonight, as all of S's ipod songs are on the computer WAH took. WAH still hasn't told me his new address. Boys know where he lives, but I only know what town, not where, and I won't ask them to show me. He obviously still doesn't want me to know where it is. That's his choice. It's late, I should get to bed. WAH hasn't brought S home yet, but I'm assuming he's staying over night. Doesn't surprize me either that WAH hasn't called to let me know this. He never does call me to tell me when plans have changed for him, that affect me or the boys. I feel he's and irresponsible ass when he does this, and I mention it to him nicely. He doesn't seem to get it though, even then.
Will see what tomorrow brings. Just taking things one day at a time.

[want2believe]

Happy New Year All!

Just a quick update hopefully.

I did call WAH at 2:00a.m. to confirm S was staying overnight with him. I believe I woke him up. It was a quick conversation. I probably shouldn't have called, but I get tired of him not telling me things like this, and I wanted to make sure my S was OK.

Next morning I called to see when WAH would bring S home as I needed to run some errands. We talked about working out together that morning. WAH said he'd be over in an hour. After 2 hours, no show, so I worked out by myself. WAH showed up with S after I was done working out, and about to take a shower. Just dropped of S, and took off. No conversation. His choice - I took my shower and left to run my errands. Later he called about something for the business. He said S had started a download that took over an hour, and that he'd had brought clothes for working out, but my other S said I was taking a shower. It apparently didn't
want to be around me today though, if he couldn't even say a
quick "hi".

I also checked and he had another e-mail for OW. It was
friendly, sort of like she'd like to hear from him more, but hasn't so keeping was keeping it short and casual. WAH doesn't seemed to have responded to OW last e-mail. Good for me!

Woke up a little depressed New Years Eve, as WAH still hadn't said anything about today. About 1pm., WAH calls and asks me what we're doing tonight. I told him, that since I hadn't heard from him, I'd made plans to go to the neighbors with the boys. He said that was OK. He came over, and we ran to a couple of stores. He'd talk about getting things for the house, like he hadn't moved out. It was just talk at this point though. We had a nice evening. WAH stayed over again.

It's weird, I can tell WAH wants to be with me, yet after we
spend some time together, I can see him thinking, and he usually then takes off shortly afterwards. Typical MLC symptom from what I've read, but it is confusing.

WAH has said he likes it when I act like I want to be with him, and I can tell he does. It's hard though when I want to be with him, and I try to show it, but he acts detached. I can't make him want to be with me, that has to be his choice. If it's obvious, I just say "OK", and go about my business and leave WAH alone. I sometimes wonder if I should just give up, and quite trying to show him I want to be with him unless he initiates it. It's just that I know it works a lot
of the time though, and he hasn't seen OW for over 3 weeks, nor has he called/talked to her much, based on the couple of e-mails I saw.

Haven't heard from WAH since News Years Day. I decided to give him time and not call or send IM until I really have
to.
He's suppose to bring back the printer soone, but I may just
tell him to keep it, and I'll go buy a new one for the house. I know he thought about buying a new one, but decided not (I don't think he wanted to spend the money on a new one). I just don't know how much independence I should show him, but I want him to know I don't need him to survive either, and I won't wait around forever for him to get some things to get done, like I have in the past. But then again, I feel like I'm caving in to WAH, by just letting him have what ever he wants when he wants it. He's still very much into himself. I know he wants to feel appreciated, but damn it, I'm basically a single mother right now, and in many aspects, have been for years. When do I get some acknowledgement from
him for what I do? When will our S's be important enough for him to take the time to say "Hi" or "Bye" to when he comes and goes. Right now, he doesn't even think about doing this the majority of the time. They aren't even aware sometimes that he came and/or left.
I know this is part of the MLC symptoms, but it sucks! I'll deal with it, but it helps to vent sometimes.

So much for a quick update! Time to get back to work.

[want2believe]

Question I'd like some input on.

If WAH tells me he like it when I show him I want him, yet he
rarely initiates anything to indicate he wants to be with me, should I keep up trying to show him I want to be with him, when he's around or not.

It's hard to keep up sometimes, and I keep wondering if he
really likes me doing this or not. He rarely rejects the contact, but there probably wouldn't be any if I didn't initiate it. The only thing he does sometimes seem to initiate is the "Bye" kiss. He just seems more distant/distracted lately, yet he seems to be doing more and talking about doing more things around the house even though he doesn't live her anymore.

WAH also took today off, to take some things up to an auction. He'll only be an hour away for OW, although he didn't seem to be rushing to leave today, but if OW is working during the day, they might be meeting later tonight. It might also explain his distant attitude to me since Xmas, as I know he re-contacted OW, even though what I saw via e-mail was platonic. I'm sure he's fanatizing some about being with OW again though. It's par for the course of a MLC from what I've read. I'm not sure if he'll be seeing OW or not. Guess it'll depend on when he gets home tonight, or if he stops by to workout (something I told him I'd be doing tonight, and which he has said he wants us to together).

[Afraid]

I haven't been spending much time here lately, but I just finished reading your post. I understand alot of your thoughts and questions. I wanted answers right now, not sure what to do. Still I am not sure today my H finished his ride completely. He seems to leave in the middle. I tried to identify the stages with him and could never pinpoint how much longer he was going to put me through this. I do believe he had started his cycle about 10 years earlier and I pulled him out of it, which is why it is important you let him go through it by himself or he will start over at a later time.
I know it is hard, but you really need to go on with what you want. Don't wait for him or ask him for approval, don't change your plans. I know you feel as though you are being a bad mom if you take the kids and don't let him spend time if he decides. Remember he moved out not you.
Also my H did the not enough sex thing, but for some reason when he found the OW he tried to avoid sex more with me. Maybe guilt. He didn't know what he wanted, but said it wasn't about being with her, he just didn't know what he wanted. He will not leave the OW until he is ready and you obsessing about it doesn't help. It will only bother you.
I do believe it stems from something that happens in their childhood. I thought my H could not get closure on something that happened w/ his mom since she died when he was 17. He just told me a few months ago this shocking story. I now think it was more he feels guilty about her death. She had died while he was upstairs in there apt. building when his mom died. She apparently called for help and the operator called back to see if someone call, for some reason called where he was. Not know they told them no one had called. She later died with out help. His brother blamed him for not being there. I still don't get how they might have called a different number, maybe there is still more to it.
Anyway I know it is hard you working with him, but my H never left home. I lived with him. He also lost him job during this so I had to watch him be depressed-make dumb excuses to leave to house-probable to see the OW at times.
Funny thing now 2 years later he doesn't seem to remember(at least to me) he did this. I don't bring it up-just by his reaction if I act like I am suspicious of any behavior.
We are now building a new house.

Sorry I seemed to have hijacked your thread, but my point is it will take time and you need to let it. If you read my threads you will see how much easier it was for me once I ignored him so much.

[want2believe]

inpain - thanks for your comments. I appreciate it. I will try to read your thread this weekend.

Just a couple of comments, as I know each of our stiches is different, and different things work or don't work.
WAH did try to avoid sex with me initially. I know though that I can still turn him on, and although uncertain if that was the right approach, did usually successfully initiate sex with H. Sometimes H initiates it. I personally thing this has made a difference and that is part of why WAH is coming around more often, and why OW is not in the picture hardly at all anymore.

WAH could have gone to see OW yesterday very easily. He didn't. He could also possible go see OW tomorrow (Sat) very easily, as he'll be out of town again, but he's talking like he won't be gone long. Same as he did about
his trip out of town yesterday before he went. If he does,
that's something I can't control, but if he doesn't, it just makes me feel better about our R working out at some point here in the future. I know WAH isn't ready to come home yet, nor am I sure I want him to come home yet before he's ready, as I'm not sure I could handle WAH leaving again. Not sure what to do when that time comes (in 3 months I suspect when his lease is up), and I still think he's not ready. I think about it, but am waiting to see what happens in the next few months first.

I just show WAH I want to be with him, and if he doesn't
return the interest, I drop it and do something else, but still (try) to stay happy and act like it doesn't matter. I know it's his choice, and I have no guarantee's he'll come back, so I am moving on with my life and trying to get things done that I want done. I just that my list is long, and time consuming, and with working full time, kids, house, and a business on the side, there isn't alot of free time to work the issues. I rarely ask him for help unless I REALLY need it, and I don't get upset if he doesn't offer it. I can figure out on my own then how to handle most things, and I do. Sometimes lately out of the blue, he's doing things around the house that surprize me that he's doing it. I just say thanks.

Got to run. It'll be intersting to read your thread I think. Thanks again! I appreciate any and all comments!