What to expect...part two (OT, Betsey , need ya)

[toughlover]

Well you said it's been a month since ML and that's not acceptable to you. If you don't mind my asking...how does that get initiated, who initiates, how complicated/difficult/tense is it leading up to that, how many times/week would you be interested, etc?

I would start with something that is more action and less talking, but I'm a guy so you'd expect me to say that, right? Here's what I'm getting at...

I just flat out told my wife that for me to be truly satisfied with the SL we're looking at 2-4 times/week. Now, truthfully, I'd be almost an every day kind of guy if she were interested, but with two kids, work schedules, and her rather LD, that ain't happening, I recognize that. But I told her that at least 2/3 of the time if she weren't motivated/attracted/passionate about me then it really wouldn't make me feel much better anyhow, and so we've gone from that into talking about what would really get us connected.

My wife says that's working. I just don't see it or feel it from her at all in terms of emotional closeness/affection/sex, but if I bring it up (rare these days) her line is always, "just keep doing what you're doing cause you're doing everything you can right now." Actually, I'm at the point of losing interest myself, but I keep doing it, just not with the same frequency and enthusiasm as before. Nobody can keep that level up forever, but I definitely got her attention and gave her a taste of how things can be. Now I'm actually detaching again without even trying to. It's kind of scary but liberating as well. I AM concerned I won't ever be as hot for her again, but I also think this may be a necessary phase in order for us to rediscover this together...but it's that not knowing about how things are going to turn out that's frustrating, but you've got to let that slide as much as possible right now.

Sometimes if you can give yourself 6 weeks to just let things lay low (it seems like forever, but it's not, especially if it works) then reevaluate then and look for progress (which you can't see from day to day, but week to week/month to month it becomes more visible).

I hope that makes sense. I'd avoid worrying about the what happens when the kids leave stuff, because when you talk to a WAS who's not completely happy in the here and now about the future, all they do is project how they feel about things now ten years down the road (just like you're doing), except they may not be as motivated as you/we are, so they look at that and go, "Yikes!"

I don't know your H but what would happen if you sat down with him to talk about, say, finances and made some overt sexual gestures while keeping the convo on something else. You know, make yourself available but don't let him see your feelings are hurt if he doesn't respond right away, or the first few times?

My point is, he'll see you in sexual terms and see how much you're interested but he'll also know he's not giving it to you so it might make him start wondering...hmmm...if she's THAT interested it's only a matter of time before someone else takes her up on that.

That doesn't mean I think you should specifically dangle that spectre before him...my guess is he'll make the connection himself.

Anyhow, that's the view from my little world.

[Mamabear]

TL,
Thanks for the response. PreA H was always the one to initiate with a lot of turn downs from me. Not to defend myself but we have 3 small kids and I was exhausted and my self esteem was very low from being overweight. (Good news though, I lost 25 lbs. on the LBS diet)

I initiated recently. The timing just never seems to be right. We work opposite shifts. Our S5 ALWAYS ends up in our bed. Up until recently our golden retriever also slept in our bed (a few days ago H put up a child gate to keep her out). Our children are very insecure in light of the past year and never let Dad out of their site. The last time we ML (after I purchased a lock for our bedroom door) the 3 of them stood outside banging and crying to get in. We do not have, nor can we afford a babysitter. We can sometimes use my brother but he is very reluctant and then we feel bad about it.

So, TL, being that you are a man, how should I approach all of these obstacles? H goes to bed earlier than me, sometimes before I even get home from work. I usually have to seek him out and give him a kiss goodnight. It doesn't seem like he wants anything more.

If I were to bring this up, what could I say that would not put him at the defensive or hurt his feelings?

[Mamabear]

Journaling...

Maybe it's hormonal but sometimes I feel like telling H I don't want to live like this any longer and that maybe the best thing for both of us would be to get a D.

I want my H to want me...it appears that he doesn't.
I want to be able to trust him; what he says and does and his whereabouts...I still have doubts creep in my mind.
I want to be able to talk to him about anything; like before the A and not have to come here to ask advice on how to speak to my H.

We are in the process of refinancing to consolodate some debt (much of which was generated by H during his MLC/A) and I am second guessing if that is the right thing to do. Maybe just sell the house, pay our debts and go our seperate ways.

Took this from ToughLovers thread:

We have a nice time together, but it's sort of like just being best friends. The affection feels forced

I don't want to spend the rest of my life like this. Ugghh.......

[MariS]

Mamabear,

I understand your thoughts, fears & concerns....

Don't exactly know what to suggest, but wanted to let you know that you are not alone. (I have a thread in MLC & my WAH-MLCer is driving me nuts w/his "MLC dance")

Please remember that this is where we, the LBS either make the marriage or break it. This roller coaster ride does cause us a tremendous amount of emotional drain. Please hang in there. Take it one hour at a time if you have to. Come here to journal & vent.

Have you sought C? I just signed up for a DB Coach, knowing I will desperately need it during the holidays. Not sure where the $$$ are coming from, but my (& your) sanity are priceless.

Sending you positive thoughts for the day/weekend.

[Mamabear]

Thank you Mari,
Piecing is almost harder than when H was in the middle of his "MLC/A dance". Sometimes it just seems like too much work. I am tired...this has been the most emotionally draining year of my entire life! It seems so unfair that I have to work so hard to "win" back my H's love when he was the one that betrayed me. I guess I am having a hard time letting go of that betrayal. In a perfect world he would be the one trying to win back MY love.

[MariS]

Mamabear,

I know EXACTLY what you are feeling & saying.

The betrayal is the worst & more so when children are involved (IMO).

Yes, it does seem unfair that our Ss are not having to win us back, but life is not fair & we are dealt what we are given. Please realize that they are ill with demons that we can help them with. We can pray that God will help them though...

Give yourself persmission to have a down day, that is the roller coaster ride you & I are on. Just remember, that the sooner you are able to forgive H, you will start to feel better about yourself. It is a feeling that you can control & gives you internal strength.

A month ago, I had the opportunity to tell my WAH-MLCer that I had forgiven him for his A. There were tears in his eyes, but no words forth coming. However, it gave me a huge sense of peace & a burden being lifted.

Hope you can find it too, but it will take time.

Hugs!

[Mamabear]

Ya know I really would like the opportunity to tell my H that I forgive him but...he has NEVER admitted to anything other than being friends with OW. All the times that he was out drinking or out late or even over night he always claimed to be with "just guys from work".

Maybe he needs to forgive himself first. He denies everything so by me telling him that I forgive him I think he would take it as me acting like I am better than him.

[MariS]

MamaBear,

Hadn't thought about it that way....hummm.

But, then my WAH-MLCer only admitted his A, once I had all of the evidence & confronted him with photos/information. Otherwise, I doubt he would have ever fessed up.

Still you will need to forgive him, within yourself.
AND, I know that does take time.

Big HUG

[MuddleThrough]

Mama,

Just a quick question RE: ML - when you initiate or bring the subject up, how personal are you? Do you tell him what you want - the act? Or do you tell him you want him? Focusing on specifically what you want of him, not from him, might stroke his ego enough to recognize that you want him and not just satisfaction. Just a thought.

Hang in there - you're doing great. You'll get yours eventually. If you were beating him off once, you will likely be again.

[toughlover]

mama

Well my point about it feeling forced was mainly to show you that I'm getting 98% of what I want, up from, say, 20% earlier this year and probably almost nothing this summer, and even my feelings aren't what I expected, and things are actually going WELL.

Hey, when the wave comes, you just gotta ride it, whatever it is.

Change happens. Feelings change the most yet we always seem to think that however we feel right now is how we'll feel a year from now.

That ain't good, thinking that for us or for them. I've burned hotter than hades for my W from when we got engaged to, oh, about two weeks ago. Now I'm coasting, I'm pretty numb, but my attitude and behavior are right. Feelings can go all over the map.

We're human, we don't have to let fight or flight responses control our every decision.

And yes we're going to suffer occasionally. That's what's going on right now.

WAS have affairs because they think they know the future, think the M is over, and think you're the problem. Now, we may be part of the problem in our M's...in fact, we almost always are...but THEY are the problem in THEIR lives, and the more they go off and try to solve the problem just by either distancing themselves from us or finding the "magic person" who's going to make it all better, the worse they get.

All of a sudden, those great feelings in the beginning are doused by the cold water of reality from dealing with OP's who have some serious problems of their own.

So probably the person in the marriage with the most problems and least character cheats and gets involved with someone with a lot of problems and minimal character. And then, EUREKA!, nobody's happen.

Reckon why?

So they return to their lives and spouses. And there's a re-entry problem.

We want what they don't have to give (anyone, really), and they don't know what they want.

It's easier to give up.

Don't give up. Listen to Muddle. Hang tough! Get a life, really, and wait for the future to catch up to YOU.

Talking about feelings won't create em. Living well creates em. So go live as well as you can...and you know you can.

And to get you jumpstarted, esp. since we're staring at the weekend, let's all contemplate the humor of Muddle's parting thought:

If you were beating him off once, you will likely be again.