What to expect...part two (OT, Betsey , need ya)

[Mamabear]

Monday morning update;

H has really been fantastic. He came straight home from work on Saturday and we spent the entire weekend at home together. Kids had their friends over so they were occupied. We sat around talking and watching TV. H was kind, thoughtful, and sweet yet...we didn't ML .

I don't want our marriage to be like it was preA. Last night I wanted to have the old R talk, again, when we went to bed but he fell right asleep (or pretended to) so the talk was avoided. I went downstairs to write him a note about my dissappointment but for some reason decided not to, probably because I have done it before and nothing came from it. That and the fact that H probably knows things are lacking and doesn't need me to preach it to him.

I know I am being selfish but it is so difficult for me. In my head I imagine that H and OW were doing it every chance they could get so why can't H and I be like that

[grasshopper]

Mama,

Glad to see things are at least not bad.

I know I am being selfish but it is so difficult for me. In my head I imagine that H and OW were doing it every chance they could get so why can't H and I be like that

Ok, first of all, this is in your head. Get out of there. It doesn't really matter what they did or didn't do all the time. Secondly (and no, this does not really go against "firstly") is it possible that he wants something out of your sex life that he isn't getting with you? I know you aren't supposed to think about "them" but I know in my case, I found out by reading between the lines, and being told directly, that the main thing she liked about OM was the passion he had for her. Then, looking back at "our" sexlife, I could see where it had become so stale and mechanical.

I never thought/think of it as a competition or anything, but knowing what my W wanted all along helped me figure out that I only needed to open up and express my own repressed feelings and all of a sudden...

I say this with the premise in mind that both your H and my W love/like us and either were attracted to, or are attracted to us. The reason I say that is because in my W's case the OM was, IMHO, much more of a typical "great looking stud man" than I am. If I thought she wanted something like him, I would wilt. What she wanted/wants is to FEEL something from me.

So, back to you Mama. Your H MAY want different things than you have had with him in the past. Maybe he feels uncomfortable talking about it with you. Hell, maybe it was just the excitement of the affair.

The bottom line here is that you MUST stop imagining what they did and start trying to figure out what YOU want to do. I wish I had the answer for you but I don't. I think you are chasing something that isn't real (having a sex life like him and OW) at the expense of figuring what IS real.

Oh, and don't write him letters about how disappointed you are. Just move on. Don't rely on him to make you happy...in ANY way right now. Like you said, you've expressed these things before and nothing.

Maybe the direct approach would work. Just tell him what you want, IN DETAIL (hint:Mommy might not use those terms but WIFEY does) and ask him what he wants. Then ask him to DO it with you.

GH

[Mamabear]

Hi GH,
Thanks for posting.

the main thing she liked about OM was the passion he had for her. Then, looking back at "our" sexlife, I could see where it had become so stale and mechanical.

Yes, stale and mechanical sounds very familiar. Truth be told I would definitely be open to try new and different things but don't know how to get from here to there. Do I just throw myself at him and repress my fear of rejection?

[grasshopper]

Do I just throw myself at him and repress my fear of rejection?

Mama, it seems to me that there is something wonderful between throwing yourself at him and just waiting for something to happen.

What's between them is confident, direct expression of what YOU want.

Here's the thing. Before all this, my W would NEVER talk about sex or what she wanted. Even now she has a hard time...right up until she doesn't. Sure, I initiate much of the time still, but she sure as hell isn't shy about telling be what she likes, what she wants and just "talking" in general, and it's sexy as hell.

You don't have to throw yourself at him but what about just walking up to him some evening and saying "Honey, the kids are in bed and I would really like you to..."

I know we keep coming back to PM but I really have to think that your sitch is right up that book's alley. I don't mean you should go back and read it, but one of it's main ideas, the one about learning to express YOUR desires and not depend on a reflected view of yourself is key here. Sure, you may say "Honey, I would love to ---- you right now, right here and to start I would like you to..." and he may yawn and say "I'm too tired, maybe tomorrow" but so freaking what. So say, ok, fine and walk away, towards the bedroom taking your clothes off along the way. If you need to, be your own best friend if you know what I mean.

What I am getting at is that it makes a WORLD of difference in my R that we BOTH know the other is "sexual" sometimes. I NEVER thought my W liked sex very much other than it was a way to connect. Now that I have learned to express my desires (not just that I am horney) for her, and have learned to talk in a language she understands (i.e. she REALLY likes me to talk to her about what I want) we both are more comfortable just expressing ourselves to the point where she KNOWS that even if I am for some reason not in the mood (I swear, it almost happened the other night) then she can just ask me to "do for her" and I will...and vice versa.

The spice in your love life will likely come from YOUR opening up to him and yes, emphatically, getting rid of that fear of rejection.

The point is to make your sexuality, your desire about MLing with him live on it's own merits, not just as a way to gauge his commitment to you.

GH

[cat03]

offering the other side of the coin, my H doesn not like to talk about how and what he likes, at all! he always says "I can't talk about that! I like what we do" and that's it, he is just too shy, he just doesnt' like to talk, I've tried to get him to talk about that. But still, it is sexy to talk about it, and I still do some yummy talk and he sounds a bit shocked (I never did talk before) but I like it

Just posted on running's thread about how I sicked myself thinking what she did that my H liked or if their SL was better than ours, he told me yesterday that it was a bit different than ours and that it was just sex w/her, that I shouldn't be comparing myself, he was frankly surprised I had all those fears in me, to him it is ancient history not a cherished memory like I feared... it was just sex, period.

I remember when we were dating, we were like rabbits , so it was just the novelty and lust w/the op; not that us, the Ws are not appealing!

It did take me months to get him interested.

Anyways, I'll try to not be too graphic, but in the beginning he'd just lay there (after kids were sleeping & we were alone) and do nothing. So I just started cuddling up to him, then caressed his chest, abs, then moved south..then get him up, slid down there & the rest is history. As time passed by he'd be more affectionate, caressed me more. I never EVER did that before, so maybe that helped.

Just ordered "How to Be a Great Lover: Girlfriend-to-Girlfriend" which members from the SSM board think is great, we'll see

[Mamabear]

Thanks for the advice GH and Cat,
When it comes down to it it really isn't about the sex. We all know I can go without for a LONG time. It is really more about H's commitment to me. It is a way that I measure his love for me. For 12+ years we were exclusive to one another. Now, in reality, I do not know if H's A was an EA or a PA. I am assuming it was a PA. I guess I need sex from him to prove to my own ego that he loves me and no one else. Does that make sense?

[Mamabear]

Not much action as of late on my thread...

So I will just use it to journal my thought so I have something to look back on.

Recently several older men have taken an interest in me where I work. Yesterday, someone at least 25 years older told the bartender that him and his buddies thought I was very pretty. While it was flattering to hear I am not in the least bit interested. There is only man for me and that is my H.

I was thinking; if I were to become single again my options would be older men and not to offend anyone reading this, but I haven't found any of them attractive to me.

Now, I am 5 years older than my H who is in his late 30's. What if that is how he feels about me? What if he is no longer attracted to me physically, especially since OW is 13 years younger than me?

Do I discuss this with him? We haven't ML in a month. I DO NOT want our sex life to go back to they way it was before the bomb but it appears to be doing just that. When he was in the midst of his A in a heated argument with me he yelled that he loves sex, thinks about it everyday and wants it everyday...yet, he doesn't seem to want it with me.

Is continuing this charade of a M a mistake? Is staying together for the sake of the kids wrong? What will happen when the kids are older; will he decide to leave me then? Should I talk to him about this? I want to but will he be honest with me?

Just talking to myself, but if anyone wants to join in that would be great!

[cat03]

I'm the same age as my H, ow was a bit older I think; if he wanted to he could've found someone younger, but that isnt' the point of the A most times, as my H put it "she was just there".

It is hard to be assertive and confident after the huge blow we took, but that's what you need to focus on, be sure of yourself, be happy with who you are.

I did have that talk w/my H, he was always into sex, and it's taken months for him to initiate and sometimes I suspect he could take it or leave it, or rather work on his projects. But I'd bring it up making sure you dont' sound offended, as calmy as you can tell him you miss being with him. As far as if he'll lie or not, we choose to believe them when they came back, so go with that, what matters is that you are being honest and it's on him if he hides the truth, he can never throw in your face that you didnt' address this problem.

[toughlover]

mama

It's frustrating. I think the thing that drives LBS's crazy is we start to feel like we can never talk about it at all, and will never be able to. One thing I started doing was scheduling talks (among other things) and try to increase the time between them. That way my W didn't feel like I was going to blindside her, but I felt like I was still important.

Another thing that does is give you time to collect your thoughts and be very choosy about HOW you discuss things. Instead of it being an impulse, and too emotional, accusatory, etc., it ends up being more constructive. At least, that's how it works for us, but that's what my wife responded to the best, sometimes you have to try different things and see what works best for both of you.

Hey, I also know what you mean about other people hitting on you. It's really bizarre but I've been getting way more attention from women in the last 2-3 months than I've gotten in a long time...some indirect, some shockingly direct. It's disturbing, really...even my W has noticed and it's hard to tell whether it bothers her or not. She acts like it does, but I'm not sure she's sincere.

[Mamabear]

Maybe some of you could help me phrase my conversation so that it doesn't come off as whiny or accusatory but direct and honest. Keep in mind that neither one of us have ever been comfortable talking this way. Thanks.