EA, being "friends" with OW, and Boundaries

[NikB]

Hi Mepicurious - you raise some good questions, thank you. I am hoping that the counseling helps with the 'friend' problem. It's like H knows there's something wrong but can't quite put his finger on what, and nothing I say gets through (or anyway it doesn't appear to - I can tell he's thinking about it though). I hope the MC can bring it up in a way where he doesn't feel attacked, or he'll just shut down completely. He already seems convinced he's going to be painted as the bad guy and is already defensive about it.

You're right about the dinner and Thanksgiving issues. I care because, basically, I don't want her there. But it should be enough for me to tell H that and he can deal with the rest. I hadn't thought about it all being dumped in my lap. He got himself into this mess and someone's going to get hurt when he gets out of it, no matter what.

On the going out with "friends" - you're right, I took that on myself too, but need to think more about what you said. My problem is I really want to spend time with H and prove that I've made positive changes. Right now it seems like he's only willing to give me that chance when we go out with a group of people (and that group always includes her). I think the tension between us has escalated lately because he's realizing that he CAN'T ignore the consequences or live in the dreamworld anymore (for example the Thanksgiving thing... he just can't have it both ways).

One thing I need to try is scheduling us to do more stuff with old friends that we've lost touch with. He always enjoys that, doesn't try to invite OW those times, and it's one of the few instances where he'll actually tell her "no" when she invites herself along. Someone here had also suggested events that involve tickets or reserved seating, and I think it's a great idea. If I do more of that proactively I think I may be able to spend more time with H and NOT have OW around.

Ultimately yes, I need to detach enough to lose the fear of driving him further into her arms. That is by far the biggest challenge for me right now. I need to take deep breaths and remember it can't all happen overnight. Right now she's still got her boyfriend and her H trying to get her back - I think my H is her "backup" in case something happens, so hopefully I have some time.

[NikB]

(journaling)

I know I'm posting too much, I am so jittery right now! I'm sure this is normal but I am so nervous about our first MC session!!! I'm just trying to keep the butterflies down in my stomach, keep breathing, and keep smiling. I wrote down what I want to say in case I lose it completely when I get there.

[inspiredjulie]

Nikki-

Don't worry about how much you are posting. this can feel very therapeutic and you don't have to pay $75/hour!

Anyway, everything happens for a reason. I feel like we've come across these boards for a reason. So use them away. How great that we can learn from others and vice versa!

Julie

[*KS*Chick*]

so when is/was counseling and how did it go if it was last night?

[NikB]

Thanks all for the ongoing support. We had our first counseling session last night and I guess it went ok.

It's finally "official" - H's goal for counseling is to dissolve the marriage with as little hurt to me as possible. My goals are to reconnect, re-establish a loving environment in our marriage, and learn to communicate our needs constructively, openly, and honestly. (side note - why do they use the word "dissolve"? do they think it hurts less if you pretend it's not a divorce??). The counselor said very early that it was clear our M wasn't working as it was, and she felt that through our time with her we'd decide if we wanted to "re-marry" each other with a new, healthier relationship.

I was very impressed with our MC. H would barely talk at first but she "read" him very well. He had hardly said anything when she asked if dissolving our marriage with at little hurt as possible was his goal. He said "yes" and then "maybe" then "Well right now yes." He seemed so relieved - like it was "OK" for him to feel that way and she wasn't going to attack him for it. He still struggled to get his emotions out, but after that at least he talked. At the end of the session she asked if we wanted to continue with her or if we'd like her to help find someone who's covered by my insurance, and mentioned that it might be near $1000 by the time we finish meeting with her. H answered quickly - faster than he had all night - "No, I'm comfortable with you and we have the money in savings." Wow... that was huge.

I found out that my broken leg 2.5 years ago is the main source of his unhappiness with us. Actually I was shocked - he rated his happiness with the M at a 7 on a scale of 1-10 before the injury. I thought he'd say 5 at most. When we dated/married he knew I had muscle issues but thought I'd just keep getting stronger, being able to do more and more (after all that's how the first 8.5 years of our life together went). Finding out I had osteoporosis and me losing so much mobility and strength impacted him more than I ever knew. It hurts so bad that the thing that bothers him most is the one thing I CAN'T just "do a 180" on. I am working hard, but the simple fact is it's going to take a long time. Beyond that, I can't promise that nothing like it will ever happen again. Because my muscles aren't normal, any injury will ALWAYS be very devastating to me. He "knew" this intellectually, but I don't think either of us fully understood what it could mean. I definitely need to encourage him to do physical/active stuff with his friends - I hadn't realized how much I hurt him by doing the "but don't you want to spend time with me?" thing. Of course, that doesn't mean the friends have to be attractive women - but I need to truly support it and be enthusiastic when he wants to go do active things with his guy friends.

We did talk briefly about the EA/OW. I almost didn't bring it up out of loyalty to H - how weird is that? Once I finally did, the MC told H that it isn't possible for someone to be emotionally intimate with both people in a situation like that, and asked H if he had talked to OW about cutting back their contact while he works on/evaluates our M. H didn't say a word but looked like he was going to run out of the room. I said "I don't want to tell him what he feels, but I think he's realizing that one of us is going to be hurt badly and doesn't know what to do." H nodded slightly while staring at the floor, and the MC set up separate sessions with each of us to discuss it further (good idea, I think). It's not til after Thanksgiving but at least it's out there.

The MC suggested antidepressents for me. She saw that I am trying with the PMA but said I was struggling more than I should have to. It's true - my "default" mood is not that happy and I am starting to realize that's not how it has to be.

She said a couple of things she saw about us were that we complemented each other very well and cared deeply for each other - H and I both agreed with those statements. No, it's not enough to build a marriage on, but those two things are a good start aren't they???

Afterwards we had a nice dinner and kept talk fairly light. I thanked H for going to the MC and he said he was glad he went, and said in a kind of surprised tone that he thought he might get something out of it too (I guess maybe he thought it was only going to benefit me). He encouraged me to follow through on the anti-depressants and said he's starting to understand that it really is a chemical thing for some people. Major switch for a guy who used to say he didn't "believe in" the drugs and people should just "get over it."

So it was positive overall, but I can't help feeling a little sad today. I'm so hurt and upset that I/we can't trust..well...me, I guess. No matter what, no matter how much progress I make, I can't promise that my body won't fail again. I keep trying to tell myself that we can get past it. I mean, H can't promise he won't get sick or be in a car accident and end up paralyzed either, right??? I guess all I can do is focus on getting stronger day by day, though.

[NikB]

Oh I nearly forgot to mention - I asked H if he still wanted to go out tonight and he said yes, and told me about a handful of people from work who wanted to go too. Shockingly enough, he didn't invite OW. He said he told her we weren't doing anything exciting so that she wouldn't try and invite herself along. Baby steps...

[*KS*Chick*]

sounds really positive Nikki. I'm pulling for you.

[mepicurus]

Good job in getting through the "official" announcement of your husband's wishes. I know that when I heard basically the same thing for the first time (likewise in a MC's office), I felt devastated.

(Oddly enough, the therapist also asked me searching questions about my "anxiety levels" which led me to believe that she was aiming to send me to the pharmacist too.)

All I can say is "good luck." I'm sorry to hear that your health issues are such a problem in your marriage; at first blush, it very much seems like selfishness on your husband's part that might be cleared up by some gain in maturity, but I don't know the whole story and don't want to be judgmental in that way.

Perhaps - to me it seems likely - that is NOT the whole thing, and that other issues are being covered over by this immediately apparent one.

For that reason, your "baby steps" are probably going in the right direction. Right now, doing the DB thing seems to be your best course of action, and you're clearly well on your way with it. I know that doesn't do much to make you feel better right now, but in time the sense of doing positive things will bring its own (sometimes lukewarm, sometimes slightly better) comfort.

Good luck again. You'll get through it.

[NikB]

Just journaling about some other interesting tidbits from the MC session. I want to be sure I remember, and thought some of it might help others too.

I found out that H is a “visual” and “auditory” person and I’m a “tactile” person. She said this stuff is hard-wired, just like eye color. We knew he was mechanical and I’m more analytical, but I found this other thought interesting. In talking about some of the changes I’ve made I told her “I feel like they’re really superficial” and went on to list dressing nicer, spending time on my hair, keeping the house cleaner. Well as it turns out – these things are all HUGE to H.

I honest to goodness had no idea that it makes him actually feel ill when stuff piles up on the coffee table or some coffee grounds are spilled on the countertop. Not to mention how much it bothers him if I’m wearing t-shirts to bed or hop into sweats as soon as I get home from work (this would be the tactile, “like to be comfy” side). Not that I can’t do that SOMETIMES, but it really does affect him on a much deeper level than I knew. I have to really force myself to focus on this stuff – I honest to goodness don’t even see or hear some of the stuff that bothers him. I told her about the lingerie I bought that’s both pretty and comfortable and she said “That’s perfect!”

She suggested I try to think like H and walk through the house once a day to see trouble spots, and she asked him to gently but clearly tell me when something is “one of those things” that I probably don’t see. I think it was surprising to H that I don’t notice it (an example being, say, magazines on the coffee table) – he just thought I didn’t care. The MC said she’s like me – she’ll clean up after making coffee, think the counter’s spotless, and her H will mention that there are still coffee grounds there. She said she finds herself thinking “someone else had to put those there, I cleaned it!!” I think her sharing that example helped H understand where I’m coming from. I guess it’s similar to his memory issues – it took me a long time to realize he really does have trouble remembering things and he wasn’t just “conveniently” forgetting stuff.

This also means I know how to help my changes have the most impact. For example, I’m going to start putting in more time on the treadmill to help rebuild my strength. I originally planned to do it when H wasn’t home, so it wouldn’t cut in to our time together. Now I realize it will make a strong impact for him to actually SEE me on the treadmill, so I plan to do it after work and hopefully he’ll be home some of the time. I noticed he usually seems happy when he comes home and I’m curling my hair or getting ready to go out, even more so than if he comes home and I’m already all spruced up and ready to go. So, we’ll see how this goes.

She asked if he’d noticed my changes and if he appreciated them and he said yes to both, that things have been a lot better the last 4-5 weeks. I said he was probably afraid it won’t “stick” or that I’ll backslide, and H nodded and said “It was just so sudden, it makes me wonder.” She shared some really interesting insight that I thought might help a lot of us here – there are two types of backsliding:

1. Making the effort, but honestly not seeing or realizing that XYZ needs to change, or having a day where you just can’t do it. With this type of “backslide” both people are responsible – one for kindly but clearly expressing the problem, and the other for being receptive to the feedback and taking action on it.

2. Giving up or not caring anymore and letting those things go. This is the dangerous one, of course.

I think it helped a lot for her to say this. It reinforced to both of us that we won’t be perfect, but as long as we’re trying and supporting each other we’re moving in the right direction.

[NikB]

Thanks Mepicurious. I’m SO glad that I’ve been reading here and mentally preparing for the worst so the blow wasn’t nearly as bad. In the waiting room I was kind of shaky and nervous and told H. He said “Why be nervous? It’s not a test.” I also noticed he didn’t fill out the “I’ll know this session was successful when…” section on the paperwork. He was SO calm it was eerie… so I kind of knew it was coming. In fact I was happy that he prefaced it with a “maybe” and “as of right now.” A month ago it would’ve been a definite “yes, let’s hurry up and get this over with.”

I understand what you mean on the health issues and selfishness. In some ways I agree, but I can also see it from his side. I mean, I don’t have a choice that I’m 33 and “feel” 70 or 80 sometimes – he does have the choice not to be with someone who's feeling/acting old way before her time, though. And by me being too selfish about spending time with him, I forced a lot of compromises on him too (i.e. since I couldn’t go bike riding and got kind of jealous if he went without me, he gave it up). I didn’t see it at the time, but now that I do I can change my reactions. The MC reminded him that he knew we “weren’t going to be climbing mountains together” when we married and he agreed, so that was good.

I agree there are probably more issues lurking beneath the surface. It’s clear that the physical stuff and not being able to communicate openly are both huge, but I know there’s lots more. At first I wondered if H brought up the injury to help deflect attention from the EA/OW, but after hearing him talk about it more and the MC's thoughts on it I do believe it's a big issue for him.