EA, being "friends" with OW, and Boundaries

[inspiredjulie]

Anyway... this Friday, I've decided if he comes home and gets in 'that' mood I'm giving him a choice. I'm going out and doing something fun - if he wants to come, great, if not, seeya later. If he decides to go it'll probably be dinner and a movie or something, but if he decides not to I'll hit the bookstore for a coffee and find the DR book!

I think this is a great idea. Also, good luck at your C session tomorrow. Julie

[NikB]

Mepicurious – I left you a long reply on your thread too so I’ll keep this one short, but thanks for the reply and support!

She had earlier pushed to have me meet said OP, as if, as you've said, we could be "one big happy family." A very, very strange dream...

Is she still pushing for this? I ask because if she is, you might consider it if you think you can handle it. Although your situation’s different because my H has never admitted to being “in love” with the OW just insists that they are really good friends.

Anyway IF it makes sense to you at all, there are a few reasons you might consider it - not regular get togethers, but a lunch or dinner or something sometime. Or even better, invite her “friend” to join you for something fun but casual that you and your W or a group of you enjoy doing together (example in a sec). The main reason is as a “goodwill” gesture for your W that will also give her a dose of reality. I honestly tried to be friends with H’s “friend” before I realized it was more of an emotional affair. It didn’t work and I think there’s no way it could, but, it meant a lot to him that I tried and he actually has said he appreciated me making the effort to make him happy. He now sees why it can’t work and finally actually sees the hurtful things she does to me (i.e. her offer to let me borrow some of her weight loss pills) – he seems to be losing respect for her because of it. Of course he still considers her his “friend” and I know he’s struggling with why his “friendship” to her feels so wrong… but that’s another story for another time!

A second reason is, it gives you the chance to look really good and make the OP look really bad. Earlier in my thread I talked about the 3 of us going to a friend’s car race one time. She was bored, rude, and obnoxious the whole time to the point of being embarrassing. Meanwhile, I had a blast cheering for our friends and being the fun exciting one for the night. That really threw H for a loop – what happened to his “fun” friend?? The same thing's happened once or twice when we all went out as a group with some of our old friends - they look at OW and are totally unimpressed, and will sometimes even ask H what the heck he's doing being friends w/her.

And last but not least, it might give you a chance to see what she sees in him and figure out ways to fill that void. Fair warning, this part of it hurts like hell, but you can pay attention to what gets her attention, makes her flash him a smile, etc. In spending time with H and EA/OW I saw that they did a lot of teasing each other back and forth (not in a flirty way, more of a “cut down” way like you see with siblings or between guy friends). Apparently H likes that - who knew? She also always has her hair and nails done, wears fancy lingerie (yes, so that it’s visibly sticking out of her clothes…ick), and she’ll do crazy things out of nowhere, like the “pillow fight” I mentioned earlier in the thread. So… I started joking around with H more, doing the unexpected once in awhile, keeping my nails manicured better, and styling my hair more often – not to be more like her, but to make positive changes in myself that were clearly things H needed/wanted also. Oh and I got some much fancier lingerie, although I keep that between H and I instead of flashing it to the world! Anyway none of it felt too unnatural to me, and he really responded to the changes I made.

There are probably 100 reasons NOT to meet the OP for every 1 reason in favor of it, but thought I’d throw it out there anyway.

[mepicurus]

Whoops! Sorry, but it looks like I hijacked your thread!

I appreciate your advice; you really seem to be able to handle a really tough situation. I don't think I would want to (or be able to) hang out with my wife and her "friend," even if she hadn't admitted her feelings for him.

I just wanted to chime in with support, and it turns out that you're returning the favor tenfold. Thanks.

Best of luck. You have guts.

[NikB]

Mepicurious - not hijacked at all! It helps to talk about similar situations with people who understand.

I don't know most days if I'm strong and have guts or a doormat who's letting her H get away with really disrespectful behavior - but I really appreciate the support, it helps a ton!

[S.T. _I Made It!]

Just and FYI.. The DR book is way better than the DB book, in my opinion. Much easier to read. I read the DR book first, and then the DB, and I really couldn't read thru the DB very well. Just too much extra info that's not really necessary for us.


So definitely get DR!!!!

I think that is a good idea about having a plan on whether or not your H decides to go with or not. Even if he does decide to go to OW, you've still shown yourself that your going to have a good time, and you can be fun to hang around and you don't have to have him to have a good time. He'll be more curious about that.

Good luck, and try not to act down about him not wanting to go if that's what happens. I wonder what would happen if you just pretended to go out alone to begin with? Like, be getting ready looking all hot and sexy and don't ask him about the evening or anything and then just tell him, well I'm headed off, you have a good evening okay?... that is, if he's in his normal depressed mood. And then maybe he'll say, I thought we are both going out? and you'll say, oh, well your always not feeling up to going out on these nights, so I thought I would just let you stay home instead. or something. Just an idea. my H would have probably gotten mad at me or something, but who knows, we've never had a date night!

Good luck though!

[NikB]

Thanks Stilltryin! I didn't realize they were that different, so that's good to know. I will look for DR for sure (either Friday night if H is pouting, or over the weekend if not).

We go to our first MC session tonight - I hope it ends up positive but I am SO nervous. H changed clothes 3 times this morning - he said he didn't want the C to immediately think "Jacka$$" when she saw him. Very strange.

I definitely understand where you're coming from with the Friday night just going out without him, but I don't want to be the one to set that precedent. So far, Friday's been "our time" - even if we go out with a group, it's the one day a week we promise to do something together. I did give him a little bit of advance warning though. Last night I told him "I'm not sitting here having the same conversation we've had the last 2 weeks this Friday - I'm hoping to go out and have fun with you like we planned. If you decide you'd rather stay home and be depressed that's fine, but I'm going." So it's still "our" time and he knows that but is also prepared that I'm not buying into the 'mood' this time around.

What's sad is it used to be our time just the 2 of us...then it grew into "us and the neighbors" most Fridays and we very rarely went out just the 2 of us. Even then it bothered me that he always wanted other people around when we went out, but I didn't understand why - I thought he was just really social. I wish I'd seen then that there was a problem starting...<sigh>.

[NikB]

I'm getting ready mentally for the weekend, and I know Friday may be rough - any thoughts on my questions below?

As I mentioned I gave H advance warning that his new "mood" isn't getting to me. I suggested a place to go and he asked if he could invite some friends. I'm backing off on the "just the 2 of us" date night for now, so I said that was fine, but I know OW/EA is really the only "friend" he is thinking of. I suggested a handful of people and he said he'd call them (they are "his" friends and he'd feel threatened if I called - I'm still working on developing my own circle of friends). I won't be surprised if it ends up me, H, and OW. (blech)

If that happens, I'm going to have fun no matter what. I'm ready for battle and will compete with her if that's what I have to do. I'm going into it with confidence, and I know I WILL win. A win is defined as me feeling confident and having fun - not based on how H responds. Our dynamic in the past has been she's the fun pretty one, I'm the loyal tolerant wallflower wife, and H is the "lucky guy" who gets to go out with two women. Not this time!!! OW will be so surprised.

But, I have a few questions -

- Any suggestions on what to do specifically? Do I pay a lot of attention to H, or kind of ignore him? I want to reinforce that I'm fun and confident, and he's a good person who deserves love, but not be clingy.

- OW will be "buddy buddy" with me. She thinks we're friends - H said he doesn't have the heart to tell her how I feel, because she doesn't have many friends. Do I "act as if" we're friends? Distance myself from her? Tell her the truth that I'm fighting for our M? (afraid this might spur a competitive "thing" though). I know enough "dirt" that I could pretend to be friendly while actually being catty and nasty if I wanted to, but that's really not me.

- OW will pressure me about Thanksgiving, especially if I'm doing the "act as if we're friends" bit. I need to have some clear but calm "no" replies ready or I can see myself either flipping out or being pressured into inviting her. Any suggestions?? The evil side of me wants to bring her a box of Captain Crunch with a bow on it and a Happy Thanksgiving card (no I wouldn't really do it, but it's fun to fantasize).

[*KS*Chick*]

Personally, I'd pay H some attention, but show him you're your own person and you WILL have fun, with or without him -- show him what he's missing out on by not being 100% loyal to you.

As far as OW - I wouldn't be "cold" but I wouldn't be overly friendly either. If she asked about T-day, I'd say you weren't sure what the plans were yet...that you and YOUR H hadn't discussed it in detail yet...

Of course, don't take my advice because I'm in a big hole right now LOL

[NikB]

Thanks Utterly Alone. I figure we're all in something of a hole or we wouldn't be here - I appreciate the advice! This stuff, especially finding the balance, is so confusing. It’s good to find out what others have tried that worked, didn’t, etc.

Unfortunately the OW knows about our Thanksgiving plans - at some point she and H were out to lunch together and he was talking about having to pick up the rental chairs, so she knows we’re having a big get together (they work together so they are in contact a lot). That’s when she started talking to him about having nowhere to go. I suppose I should feel sorry for her but I don’t – she made her choices, now she has to live with them. He regrets even mentioning it because now he's in a really bad spot.

For about half a second I considered letting her come over since there’ll be a big crowd and I could ignore her, but the thought of facing H’s whole family and my family while she’s there made me say no way. I think most of his family would wonder WTF (pardon my French) H is thinking, and my family would either be angry at H or get upset with me for being a doormat. Plus, the thought of her schmoozing H’s family while I’m working hard to make a nice holiday meal for them is enough to make me sick. As it stands now I won’t be surprised if she just “drops in,” and have been thinking about how to respond. It’s a toss up between playing the part of gracious-but-surprised hostess, or packing my side of the family up and having Thanksgiving somewhere else. Neither option’s very appealing. “Gracious but surprised” would be tougher on me, but make fewer long-term waves. "Bail out" would be pretty dramatic and put H in a really awkward position. Can you imagine him trying to explain to his family what was going on? If it comes up this Friday and I handle it right, maybe I can at least help make sure the drop in doesn’t happen. I'm pretty sure H is trying hard to prevent it too - he's just having a hard time figuring out how to tell her "no" without having to admit (to her or himself) that their 'friendship' has gotten out of hand.

He actually said he regrets agreeing to do Thanksgiving this year because of all this, which made me really sad. He’s very close to his family and it blows me away to think that he’d rather miss out on Thanksgiving with his parents, aunts, uncles, cousins etc. than tell OW “No.” I haven't brought this up to him and don't plan to, but I hope this thought is floating around somewhere in his mind too.

[mepicurus]

Nikki,

It looks like your husband is trying to avoid his responsibilities in a whole bunch of different areas by shifting them on to you. In the whole Thanksgiving issue, this shines out pretty clearly.

If he can't admit that his "friendship" with the OW has gotten out of hand and if he's content to live in a dreamworld where everything's OK all around, the practical effect of that is to put it all in your lap.

Why should you be the one to have to deal with the problem of the OW coming to dinner? Why should you even consider what her feelings might be about "having nowhere to go?" Why should you feel pressured to go out with "friends" when you know full well what that means?

It seems as if he would like everything to arrange itself nicely so as to allow him to keep matters stable as they are. It's a way of ignoring the consequences of his actions.

(I feel for you, because I'm had a similar experience with my wife.)

Anyway, there might be a silver lining to all of this: his sadness might force him to confront the reality of the situation. At the very least, it should motivate him to give some thought to the whole thing.

I don't really want to counsel any particular action to you. But perhaps you should come down harder on him. If you're afraid of driving him into the OW's arms, I understand your fear. But, as other folks here have told me, going along too easily might make it easier for him to drift along with (his version of) the status quo.

It's a tough pill to swallow either way. But maybe you should consider which scenario will permit you to take care of yourself in the best way.

Good luck in the counseling.