I think that you are projecting a good attitude in this post, an attitude that will be productive for you if not your marriage.
Thanks Mojo! The weird thing is the guys are jumping on me now because I am seeing myself from H's point of view. It's exactly because of this that I'm starting to feel myself get unstuck. So the 2*4's are well aimed but are actually hitting me AFTER I need them. If Mrs Hairdog was able to post here that she was a nagging b!tch who never let poor old HD alone, the very fact that she is posting it would mean that she had insight and she could stop doing it. Like Corri said - you don't see what you don't see until you see it.
I actually think there's not much I could put in a personal ad that would put men off. There I go again being arrogant but I am pretty good about most things, I cook, I clean, I'm a willing bed-partner, I'm not a spend-thrift, I do take care of my appearance, I'm never rude or unkind to H's friends and relatives. It's just that I haven't been doing any of these things WITH LOVE. Like your H when he said he could tell if you'd cooked something with love, my H can tell the difference.
But I am sensing a change and it has been brought about by understanding where H is coming from. Today I stopped off at the grocery store to get something for H and I to eat tonight. Usually this is difficult, our tastes differ and he often has something negative to say about what I choose or how I cook it. I realised today at the store that what has been getting in my way has been my attitude, today I picked things up because I knew he would like them, not because of their nutritional value or how long they would take to cook. Before I have always made compromises, a nod in his direction but really choosing things I think he ought to eat, or things that are more convenient for me or lean more towards my taste. Is it any surprise he's been underwhelmed?
But it's not all carrot. He's had his share of 2*4s from me lately and that has to do with a) me knowing I'm out of here if things don't shape up - I've got a plan b) telling him some stuff straight which I don't think I could have without being in the safety of the C's office.
It amazes me how different he is because of me. It's amazed me in the past, but sometimes no effort of will can make me change when things go bad again. The hard part is not knowing if he can make changes that make me feel better. In other words when I'm in a funk a change in his attitude could turn ME round. But maybe it just IS up to me, it's my life and it works the way I want it to, much as it seems not to. How can I ever know what amount of effort he really is putting in, how hard it really is for him. I live in my world and my attitude changes my world.
Fran (still here)
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Quote: How can I ever know what amount of effort he really is putting in, how hard it really is for him. I live in my world and my attitude changes my world.
If every single person could get to this place, without resentment, but just quiet acceptance, I think a lot of people would begin to see changes. Maybe not the changes they hoped for, maybe the world will NEVER be the way they envision it... but like you said... at the end of the day, all it really is... is YOUR world, and your attitude goes a long way in coloring just exactly how you see that world.
It's big realization. HUGE. Simple... but jesus, the hardest dang place to get to... eh?
I'm very, very happy for you, Fran. Take a load off, put your feet up, have a nice glass of wine... you deserve it.
Quote: The weird thing is the guys are jumping on me now because I am seeing myself from H's point of view.
Fran, I jump on you because some of what AM said, I also felt as a H, so maybe your H thought/felt that way too.
My post was to say, gees, I know I screw up but it feels like I am doing my job but it is not coming out like my W expects.
A long time ago when few people went out to eat, I promised BB we would eat out once a week. We did for a long time.
Then one week, BB had two rough days so we went out for burgers and fries a couple of times, spent the "eat out money" and come Sunday we went out for burgers and fries again. BB wanted to know why we didn't go to a medium priced restaurant as planned and that i agreed to. I said we spent our eat out money on burgers and fried potatoes/chips, and once spent, money can't be re spent.
I remember you had a situation about child care and vacations where your H agreed to something in advance, but he thought by doing some child care days earlier, he was off the hook on his regular day.
Quote: I actually think there's not much I could put in a personal ad that would put men off.
Indecisive personalities or promise breakers need not apply!
Fran, I am wishing you all the successes in the world.
I reacted to this thread because I felt my situation was in many ways similar to your H's, and that my POV could help you understand his.
Your - very moving - post leads me to believe that the supposed similarities in our situations are in fact purely superficial, whereas the differences are very profound. Which, in turn, means that most probably nothing in my experience can help you to understand your H.
This was an error of appreciation on my part, for which I hope you will accept my apologies. As I wrote before, you have my deepest sympathy, and I sincerely hope you find a solution to your current predicament.
Amicably,
Alphamole.
PS I didn't expect you to reply because I felt retrospectively that I had been OTT, not because I didn't think you had the guts... I think you have proved that you are not lacking in that department.
Lou, phew I dunno, you guys work really hard for us and we just don't appreciate it huh. You know what I think BB needs - I think she needs you to spoil her. For once let the careful spender take a back seat and really spoil her. I know that would be tough for you (I know where you're coming from - I have a hard time parting myself from hard-earned cash too) but I get the feeling that she feels restrained by you. The more you restrain her the more she wants to let rip. My dad has a good secret for spoiling someone when you haven't got a lot of spare cash - buy something small (like a box of cookies) but buy a really expensive box. Like normally you'd pay $2.00 let rip and cough up $10.00
Alpha, thanks for your kind message. Y'know I did feel hurt at your first message but it stopped me in my tracks and made me think - painful but good for me - so thanks It was the 2nd message that annoyed me, the one where you reckoned I was too defensive to answer you. Anyhoo our sitches are different but that doesn't mean we can't gain insight from each other. Sounds like you and Mrs Mole have a pretty healthy R just got one thing not quite clicking - care to come out of lurkage and enlighten us?
Fran
Last edited by haphazard; 11/09/0608:49 PM.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Quote: Lou, phew I dunno, you guys work really hard for us and we just don't appreciate it huh....... You know what I think BB needs - I think she needs you to spoil her.
What I posted was a long time ago when the new house took most of our money. It is different now.
a couple of years ago, BB has spendt $10,000 a year on her toys and wants, I should spoil her more?
I am happy to say she cut that down by 60% last year.
I will take your advice and go for the good candy in a smaller size.
Quote: Lou, phew I dunno, you guys work really hard for us and we just don't appreciate it huh
Fran, I know I used money to back up my point but what was more important about my eating out story was I agreed to one fancy meal out a week. I thought given the week's circumstances and our financial condition at the time (but leave out the money part) the exchange of 3 low priced meals took care of my obligation for the fancier meal. BB didn't see it that way. She mostly saw she wasn't getting her fancy meal out. She saw a loss of the social activities associated with going out. In other words we each had a different view of why our own thoughts were right.
Being a guy that thinks in cold hard facts, I threw in the money part. It is the type of information that is not subjective.
FWIW, many people that are self employed see things differently than people that work for someone else, especially it the employed person works for a company that has paid holidays and other benefits. There is really a difference between working for a company that has paid holidays, benefits, and the company is making lots of money to one that is not.
Compare that to an individual that is in an industry that doesn't make a lot of money, has lots of competition, customers are not loyal to one person or company, a business that has lots of expenses and the boss pays everyone else and his expenses first and the boss gets to keep what is left over. sometimes there is a lot left over and some times there isn't much left over.
I know I get confused looks from my customers when I say I will be back on Monday sometimes. They say "Monday is a holiday, why would you come back then?" I don't look at life as what do I get. I look at life as what do I have to do to get the job done and keep this person as a customer, and of course how do I make money.
I am not saying your H is right or am I making excuses for him. I am not saying you need to see things from his POV. I am just posting information that I have to work with and if any is helpful, it's yours. If it is not helpful, ignore it.
I am not condoning any drinking/alcohol or other addictions or demeaning, neglectful behaviors your H might have.
but I am pretty good about most things, I cook, I clean, I'm a willing bed-partner, I'm not a spend-thrift, I do take care of my appearance, I'm never rude or unkind to H's friends and relatives. It's just that I haven't been doing any of these things WITH LOVE. Like your H when he said he could tell if you'd cooked something with love, my H can tell the difference.
