Quote: That does not mean there must be any emotional bond, at least not at first, but only a mutual agreement that it is in the interest of both people to respect these rules, otherwise fighting escalates and innocent children suffer. The rules may not be comfortable or enjoyable, they just need to be reasonable and FAIR.
Reasonable and fair according to WHOM? The view that the R is NOT reasonable and fair, according to both spouses, is what is cauing the problems to begin with...
Quote: The only other requirement that I see is acknowledgement and understanding of the fear issues each person has and a willingness to accept some type of soothing from the spouse.
You're joking. In order for me to accept soothing from someone, I have to TRUST them.
Quote: The particular form of soothing may need fine tuning, but if each person can simply admit they do not know the answers and are trying their best, then it may be possible for each person to avoid growing a chip on their shoulder.
The only way I see you getting to this point is through an agreed upon 'cease fire.' That means you STOP fighting... stop engaging, get a grip... as much as possible. But I think I suggested that to you already, and you agrgued the point with me. I told you... "stop engaging." At least as much as you are able.
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Quote: That doeesn't mean those behaviors cannot be the goal, but to expect them to appear before the fears and power struggles are resolved, IMHO, are putting the cart before the horse. But I also think we agree on that point.
Actually, what I am proposing is to put the cart before the horse, because in too many Rs I see the horse before the cart as not working. So maybe that model is incorrect.
You are expecting a person to learn how to run before they know how to walk. Okay. Good luck with that.
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I don’t agree with this. Knowing your authentic self may not be possible at all until the deep seated fears that block the view of your inner self are first removed. How is it possible for Happy giant’s wife to ever come to know herself until she can even be willing to confront her fears, much less work through them.
Agreed. On a personal level. I was speaking more about the fears that develop between two people. We don't go into an R expecting it to dismantle, to fear the other, to mistrust someone... I was talking about how this happens between people in an R.
Quote: I am coming to believe that ALL dysfunctional couples are victims of trauma, some more severe than others. But whatever it is, the trauma was serious enough to have a strongly negative impact on that person, or they would not be on this board.
But remember the difference between a victim and a martyr. A victim will seek help and change as soon as they recognize the issue(s), and will typically stick with it until it is resolved. A martyr recognizes the problem and gains some sort of personal satisfaction by remaining a victim. I personally believe that many people in dysfunctional Rs... at least the ones I've seen here... have one victim and one martyr. The martyr being the one who stiffles growth for their unwillingness to change.
Quote: Yes, I agree too. But who knows what that sense of self should be? You could find peace within yourself as a monk on top of a mountain. But you could also find peace with yourself in a mutually soothing, semi-dependent/interdependent relationship. Who says inner peace must be a solitary condition?
I didn't say it had to be a solitary condition. But in any R... there is a you, a me, and a us. If I don't know who the 'ME' is... there is no US. Or it's some very undefined version of ME I'm throwing into the mix... and we all know the damage an undefined ME can do within the context of an R... for I have no boundaries, no sense of self. That was my point.
Quote: I may never be able to reach my full authentic self, and neither may she. But that is a choice and a constraint. I must find a way to optimize our lives and those of my kids under our severe limitations. That is real life. That is what will surely come to pass.
You can find and be your authentic self within the context of an R. You don't have to get a D or be on your own to find it. You don't have to give up your authentic self for the sake of family... I think if you do... you are not being honest. Being authentic, to me, does not give you license to do whatever it is you want in life, shirking your reponsibility and respect for those around. Quite the opposite, actually. Jeese, I keep thinking of the Serenity Prayer when I talk to you: Accepting the things you cannot change, changing the things that you can, and finding the wisdom to know the difference.
