But you are not part of a perfectly healthy R, and to expect behaviors of a healthy R in a dysfunctional R, I think, can bring a lot of pressure to an already struggling relationship.
This is actually my point. Ideally I think the Schnarchian concept of being fully differentiated an not depending on your spouse is the way to go. But on this board we are dealing with damaged souls. I don’t really know of anyone here who is healthy and strong enough to be completely their own person in a marriage. (The very fact you are in a marriage means that you will come to depend on your spouse to one degree or another.)
So because we are all working with our own flaws, I see no reason why we should not get as must help and assistance as possible. The person we ALL want that from is our spouse, whether we have evolved to realize that consciously or not. To me a dysfunctional relationship is the PERFECT place to depend on your spouse. What needs to be learned are the boundaries an minimal levels of respect to make this work, rules of engagement if you will.
That does not mean there must be any emotional bond, at least not at first, but only a mutual agreement that it is in the interest of both people to respect these rules, otherwise fighting escalates and innocent children suffer. The rules may not be comfortable or enjoyable, they just need to be reasonable and FAIR.
The only other requirement that I see is acknowledgement and understanding of the fear issues each person has and a willingness to accept some type of soothing from the spouse. The particular form of soothing may need fine tuning, but if each person can simply admit they do not know the answers and are trying their best, then it may be possible for each person to avoid growing a chip on their shoulder.
That doeesn't mean those behaviors cannot be the goal, but to expect them to appear before the fears and power struggles are resolved, IMHO, are putting the cart before the horse. But I also think we agree on that point.
Actually, what I am proposing is to put the cart before the horse, because in too many Rs I see the horse before the cart as not working. So maybe that model is incorrect.
Fear between people is often bred through the dismantling of trust. Trust is often broken through poor communication and lack of honesty. That typically comes about because we do not feel we can be, nor may not know how to be, our authentic selves. I mean really, how many of us have actually figured that out?
I don’t agree with this. Knowing your authentic self may not be possible at all until the deep seated fears that block the view of your inner self are first removed. How is it possible for Happy giant’s wife to ever come to know herself until she can even be willing to confront her fears, much less work through them.
I am coming to believe that ALL dysfunctional couples are victims of trauma, some more severe than others. But whatever it is, the trauma was serious enough to have a strongly negative impact on that person, or they would not be on this board.
In long-term Rs, the line between where I stop and another begins often times gets blurry.... if for no other reason than simple longevity and habit. The sense of self, and Who Am I, can get lost, because you always view yourself in the context of the R.
Yes, I agree, but even more blurry if there is great fear.
When I got out of my M... I have to tell you... I had a major identity crisis, and that really shocked me. I realized I had never had a solid sense of self to begin with... and through 16 years of marriage, it just got blurred even further.
How could you or anyone else ever develop a solid sense of self if under constant attack? Your world was too caught up in survival, just as others who grow up in narcissistic families. Their number one priority is in appeasing the dragon, not finding the luxury of time for self introspection. That is no fault of yours.
This, to me, is the first step towards awareness. I cannot contemplate myself within the context of an R if I don't know who I am in absence of that context. And once you become AWARE of it... it changes everything. Everything.
Yes, I agree too. But who knows what that sense of self should be? You could find peace within yourself as a monk on top of a mountain. But you could also find peace with yourself in a mutually soothing, semi-dependent/interdependent relationship. Who says inner peace must be a solitary condition?
But now that you know this... you don't have to fight about it. You don't need anyone's approval for it (especially your wife's)... you just be it. Consistently. As you become more solid and confident in Who You Are, the arguments begin to fade... because your boundaries become more clear.
I think this swings a little too much into the idealist camp. Remember, we are all dysfunctional, and as hard as we may try, I do not believe any of us will ever by truly “functional,” whatever that is. So there will always be fights, insecurities, fears. There is no way those can ever be purged. They can be controlled.
That doesn't mean you are going to get a happy marriage, it doesn't mean that divorce won't eventually happen... doesn't mean it will. It just means you now have the very best shot you've ever had at making it work... for you are becoming authentic.
This begs the question of what is authenticity? What is the objective of that authenticity. I have decided my goal is to preserve the marriage. That might not be an ideal decision from a purely selfish point of view. I might be more authentic to myself in getting divorced, making a new start, and shacking up in a trailer with that college coed Mojo mentioned.
For me, I must be realistic, learn to understand my limitations and those of my wife, accept the fact that she will not always be fair, compassionate and considerate of me, that we will both backslide and sabotage when our anger flairs, and that at times I will have to exert power when she refuses to recognize and respect my legitimacy. I may never be able to reach my full authentic self, and neither may she. But that is a choice and a constraint. I must find a way to optimize our lives and those of my kids under our severe limitations. That is real life. That is what will surely come to pass.
