Just been reading the Passion Trap by Dean Delius. Thanks to whoever posted that book recommendation - and sorry for not remembering who . It is an excellent book - I flew through it. Goes a long way to explaining my sitch and I think a long way to explaining a lot of others on this board.
To give you a brief synopsis the idea is that a lot of Rs become (or start out) inbalanced in terms of who is the one-up and who is the one-down. Once a couple polarise into these positions they start exhibiting behaviours which only make the situation worse. So for example the one-down may regard the one-up as a real “catch” and themselves as somewhat unworthy, so they go into what Delius calls hyper-courtship mode (shades of Hairdog, Chrome (to some extent), and quite a few others). It is Delius’ theory that mild anxiety about the relationship is what causes feelings of passion and desire, once we feel too secure in a R we start to take it for granted or even become contemptuous of the OP. So these hyper-courtship behaviours make the one-up feel too secure. We don’t want what comes too easily.
Have you ever noticed how completely indifferent kids can be to a toy until another kid wants it?
It makes some kind of sense – why waste energy on something that you’ll get anyway. You don’t see people rushing round making sure they’ve got enough air to breathe, food - yes, water - yes, oil – certainly; and all the more so if they think supplies might dry up or someone else might get to it first. Why are we all so off-hand with our mothers – because mother love comes for free.
The one-up partner therefore wastes little energy on the R, thus making the one-down more anxious and even more desperate to keep hold of the one-up and therefore more inclined to engage in clingy, needy, overly-compliant behaviour. The more energy the one-down invests the less the one-up feels any need to invest.
So how come the one-up doesn’t just dump the one-down? Well why cut off your supplies? Also guilt plays a major part – the feeling of being something of a heel, a bad person. The one-up’s self-esteem tells him/her they are a good person so they stay in the R to prove it. So the one-up tries to be nice to the one-down but somehow it always misses the mark – their heart isn’t really in it. Of course the one-down sees this and becomes resentful. Resentment leads to passive aggressive tactics (like LDness, although of course the one-up is equally likely to fall into an LD pattern through not feeling enough desire for the one-down). I think it quite likely that LD/HD dynamic is the same as the one-up/one-down dynamic. Often the one-down partner becomes LD as a piece of one-upmanship to retaliate in a R where they feel one-down. But equally the one-up can practise LDness as it is essentially one-upmanship.
The really interesting thing about this book is that it doesn’t try and explain everything in terms of bad FOO. It doesn’t try to pathologize us for having bad Rs, perfectly healthy people can end up with bad R dynamics due to an inbalance. It is often the case that we will fall for someone with higher attraction power than ourselves – a “dream date”. When the dream date agrees to enter the R we are bowled over and do everything in our power to maintain the R. Why does the dream date agree – usually because of a knock back to their self-esteem – either love or career related. They are feeling in the need of a little spoiling.
This goes such a long way to explaining my R. There is totally nothing wrong with H’s FOO, there’s not really that much wrong with mine either although it was more dysfunctional than H’s. The real reason for our bad R dynamics is a strange combination of one-up one-downness. When we first got together I was certainly the one-up. Better looking, earning more, older than my H. The reason we hooked up was because I needed nurturing (just had a bad break-up) – this is a classic reason why many people hook up with a glaring one-down. My H certainly engaged in many hyper-courtship behaviours, he just couldn’t do enough for me. This made him weak in my eyes and less desirable. So he became resentful. His behaviour towards me for most of our M has been characterised by resentment. And I would say - having read this book – fear. An example is that he hardly ever takes me out, and often if we went out with friends or to parties he would come over tired/ill and drag us home early. I never understood it before but now I do – he felt outshone and he felt nervous and jealous – it’s enough to make anyone feel sick. He needed to exert control over me and get me all to himself. Whenever he did that it made me feel as if I was doing something wrong – I’ve always felt like I’m doing something wrong and I’ve never been able to understand what. Now it is clear – I just am wrong because I hurt him by making him feel less-than. It is no-one’s fault. There is no reason for me to feel guilty – it sounds big-headed but it’s just a fact of life. I am more attractive, more intelligent and more socially out-going than my H. He would have been happier married to someone more his equal. I get my self-esteem dragged down by the feeling that I am not a nice person. I am a perfectly nice person but it is difficult to not act condescending from a pedestal. If I was married to Johnny Depp I would quickly feel inferior and the sense of inferiority in his presence would make me feel like he was being mean. To be honest H is not really much inferior to me he just started out in the R feeling inferior and it became a bad R dynamic. His sense of inferiority meant he was overly-compliant making me less respectful to him.
However since we became parents he became the one-up, the resentment he’d been holding for all those years spilled out and he really put the boot in. This is why he keeps screaming about power and control. I have controlled him all these years – without even knowing I’m doing it – he has put himself under my control by his fear of losing me. That’s why he so blatantly pulls out the trump card of his earning power – he is saying “look, look I am the one-up, stop behaving like I am still that poor benighted fool I once was”. Delius also describes the hidden one-up – the one-up that gives the appearance of being the one-down and I think that in fact this is what I have become. Which makes it all the harder – he feels he SHOULD be the one-up now and can’t figure out why he isn’t. That’s why he keeps calling me a control freak even though I’m truly not. I feel I should be placating him but my efforts to do so are puny – they are puny because how could I possibly make up for all his years of feeling one-down. Delius describes the one-up as being the executive decision maker of the R – in other words the one who decides if the R continues or not. Boy is this true in our case. When I DB’d three years ago and got H home my sister said at the time “you’re showing him if anyone does the dumping it’ll be you”. Here is a link to an old thread of mine showing how I was feeling after I DB’d him home – it is classic one-up.
Went for Gold - got the bronze The R went back downhill again when my mum was dying, I couldn’t invest even the small amount of energy it took to keep him happy in a one-down position and he again grew resentful and acted out. Delius describes one-downs as having sudden explosions of rage – this is certainly the case with my H. This goes such a long way to explaining why people can behave as if they have a personality disorder within the R while being perfectly healthy individuals in any other setting.
All his self-destructive behaviours, his passive aggressive behaviours, everything fits perfectly into this model. And my inability to get things right for him fits too. Unless he can stop feeling one-down (and I can stop feeling one-up) everything I do to try to make things better will fall flat – which is exactly what I’ve been struggling with. It’s so weird, I remember knitting ex-BF a sweater – I did it with love, it took ages, I designed it myself so it was unique. I embroidered “I love you” into the inside of the collar. It fit him perfectly and he wore it with pride. About a year after H and I got together I embarked on a sweater for H. I never finished it. One-ups are often made out to be the villain by the one-down. How could anyone not be villainous that did not match their total devotion. No wonder Mrs HD is looking so evil here. She is not really a cruel person, she just doesn’t have to work for anything HD gives her so it is valueless to her, she cannot match his inbalanced devotion – same with Mrs Chrome. One-downs tend not to stand up to their one-ups for fear of further distancing them – in fact the opposite effect is achieved. If they did stand up for themselves the one-up would have more respect for them and healthy anxiety would re-enter their side of the equation. I remember a time at the start of our R when we were ML, H asked me to call him “gorgeous” – I nearly choked on it. The very fact of him asking made him instantly less gorgeous. In fact if I think about it so many compliments I’ve given him and most of the ILYs have been dragged out of me. This is pure anxiety on his part, his anxiety has caused him to fish for compliments which makes me feel even less like giving them. Left to my devices I probably would compliment and say ILY more and mean it more.
His more recent behaviours are showing one-down pride. One-downs who have their pride will mimic one-up behaviours by withdrawing or telling the OP how they can shape up to meet their needs. One-downs generally ask for empathy and caring from the one-ups and one-ups generally want one-downs to change something about themselves – to become more worthy of them.
It’s so interesting – this is about the only R book I have read recently (with the exception of 5LL) that I really feel H could/would/should read. All the other books I’ve either felt he wouldn’t bother with or he’d just use them to pathologize me.
Heather’s R would fit so neatly into this model. Especially as she describes her H as not having had a bad childhood. Her descriptions of how she would do anything for him in the early years show how much she was the one-down and he the one-up. Heather and my H are examples of one-downs who acted out by having an A. This is why we accepted them back after the A, as one-ups get to call the shots on who ends the R. This is why Heather’s H is still so unforgiving of her his one-upness does not allow him to forgive her for having the cheek to do such a thing. Generally one-downs who forgive after an affair end up dealing with repeat offenders. Mojo is/was also the one-down – hence her H’s demands that she lose weight or pretty herself up. Lil is one-up, Hairdog one-down, Cemar one-down (I think), Chrome one-down, Cobra – that’s difficult I have a feeling he is a hidden one-down or possibly a hidden one-up but because his W gets to end the R I feel it is she that is the hidden one-up. HappyGiant one-up. Lou one-up (I think). Often the one-ups fall into the trap of staying in a R because the one-down is so needy/sick. Initially it is a boost to the self-esteem “look at me aren’t I good”. Gradually though, drip by drip, the self-esteem is damaged via guilt. Guilt at not being able to fix the person, guilt at feeling so angry towards them, guilt at selling yourself short, guilt at not loving them enough. All this adds up to feeling like a bad person, and every complaint they make is another blow to the self esteem. One-ups often have happy widow/widower fantasies. The funeral is where they get to be released from guilt. And when this fantasy enters your head you end up feeling yet more guilty.
There are lots of strategies in the book for how to make your R regain its balance. One-downs need to GAL for example – their new-found confidence makes them more attractive to their partners. One-ups need to free themselves from guilt (a big one for me) and open up more to their partners (and there was me thinking my H had to open up more to me – LOL). When I really think about it I have never let my H see my vulnerable side, every blow he has dealt in this R I have never really shown him how it hurt me, I just dealt with it and carried on. No wonder he describes me as having no empathy. In fact I do have empathy – a great deal – if I did not then I would have left the R a long time ago.
Well I said it would be brief but it turned out long! Get a copy – it really does describe the inner workings of so many M’s and it also has good ways to start relating differently.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I already have this book on order, Fran. It sounds right up my alley. My bf is incredibly good-looking, has a gorgeous singing voice, projects an intensely masculine persona, and, as a salesman, is very personable and charming. BUT his finances are a mess, he flunked out of college due to alcohol and drugs, and has a criminal record. So he started out the one-down.
I started out the one-up. I am financially okay (thanks to my late H), have a Master's degree, and have been a successful free-lancer with something of a local reputation in my field for almost 20 years. As for looks, I'm on the positive side of average, but nothing like the star quality that he has.
When we first met, as I said, I was the one-up, particularly sexually-- very open, playful, flirtatious-- I was very experienced and had some pretty Out There expectations for my next sexual partner. I thought, mostly because he was so hot looking, that I had met my match (finally). Turns out he has ED, due to physical and emotional causes, and was very sexually inexperienced (married 25 years, and as he confessed in the C's office a couple of weeks ago: "strictly missionary position" the whole time). He is not the LEAST bit sexually adventurous-- some of that is due to being sexually molested by his mom when he was a kid, some of it due to not having had sex sober EVER until two years ago, and some of it due to just lack of experience.
And I have become VERY resentful and very one-down. This has led to a complete lack of interest in sex on my part, in spite of the fact that he is starting to come out of his shell a bit.
Anyway, not to go on and on... but this book seems to address many of my/our issues, and I'm looking forward to reading it.
The Passion Trap is the book the OM in my sitch recommended my XW read when they first started communicating so she could better understand him. That information was in one of the emails I read when I first discovered the A. So naturally I went out and got the book.
I think he's dead on in how he describes power imbalances in an R and how they affect the R. I think he's a little too willing, however, to look at one aspect of relationship dynamics and assign the entire gamut of R dynamics to that single aspect. Many of his readers have fallen into the same trap if you put any stock in Amazon.com reviews ("This book describes every relationship I've ever been in!").
One reason I believe this approach is so seductive is because it's great in retrospect. He says power imbalances cause trouble in Rs. When you go back thru your Rs and find a trouble spot, it's very easy to come up with a power imbalance to explain it because determining who's one-up and who's one-down is so subjective. Especially when you add in the concept of the "hidden one-up/one-down". When you find a stich where it seems a person was obviously one-down but they up and left, you now say "well, they were the hidden one-up" or even "they were one-down but couldn't take it any more so they pursued the only path they could find to becoming one-up".
My wife did this for me at one point fairly early on. She went back thru our dating and marriage and matched the major trouble spots to who was one up and who was one down. If I had wanted to I could have gone back and made a case in every instance for why the other one of us was really one-up. It's a very malleable concept. Lil provides a great example...she says her bf is one-up in attractiveness but she's one up in financial stability (and general "being squared away-ness"). It's easy to see how Heather's H was one-up in the beginning of their R but did he eventually become one-down? When he was doing all that drinking did he see himself as powerful and one-up or weak and one-down? As Heather grew more resentful and contemptuous, was she seeing herself as one-up for being stronger than him or one-down for putting up with it? So in these sitch's, who's really the one-up? In hindsight it's easy to determine, just look at what happens and decide from there.
In a lot of ways the theory isn't very predictive or helpful. There are reasons given for the one-up to stay in the R and reasons given for the one-up to leave. What should be done about it? If we accept that Heather's H punishes her because it makes him one-up, what can she do about it? By definition he can't be one-up unless she's one-down. If he's not willing to meet her in the middle what should she do (assuming she's unwilling to be one-down her whole life)?
I feel like I'm muddling thru my explanation and not being clear. My basic point is that it's easy to assign one-up'ness based on outcomes. It's much more difficult to do useful things with the concept. You might see an R in which one person is obviously one-up and decide that person is in danger of bailing from the R because they're becoming resentful and contemptuous of the one-down. Then, lo and behold, the one-down is the one who bails. Then the motivations get assigned to meet the theory: the one-down left because they felt the need the seize power and become one-up.
It's like the concept of "momentum" in sports. One team scores a few in a row and the announcers point out how much momentum that side has. Then the other team comes back and evens the game. Now the momentum has switched, because momentum doesn't really exist in sports, it just gets assigned to whichever team is doing well at the moment. That doesn't mean that good results don't feed into subsequent good results on the sports field, it just means there are a lot of additional factors that determine the final outcome.
P.S. The Passion Trap is also manna from heaven for commitmentphobes. "Look," they say, "you wanted this more than I did so I was one-up and of course you lost your attractiveness to me." Yeah, the person who wants the R the least is one-up. The Passion Trap can explain the symptoms of the commitmentphobe but doesn't do much to explain the cause or the solution.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
I also have the book on order, but by what you describe, it sounds a lot like the pursuer/avoider and adult attachment dynamic.
Burgbud,
Based on what Hap describes, I would have to agree with you that this type of approach (like just focusing on pursuer/avoider) is really focusing on symptoms only. That is why I like the attachment theory so much. It explains things without “pathologizing” or assigning blame, and goes to the FOO issues to identify the source of the problem. Once that is understood, then the symptoms make start to make sense, whether they are one-up, one-down, or a combination of the two.
My wife and I also went through a period of identifying each other’s behavior as evidence of one disorder or another. That did little good since we were not addressing the core issue and without that understanding, you really do not know how to fix things. It was all deflection. Going through some rote behavior or exercise to fix the problem started to seem false and hollow. We started to make headway when we began to understand WHY we each react as we do, which means confronting our fears. That allows the emotional bonds to develop, which is the key objective I think.
I actually recommended this book recently to CeMar.
In any event, information is only as good as you make use of it. This particular presentation spoke to Hap and turned on a light for her. If the Adult Attachment is what turned on a light for Cobra, great.
We have all become painfully aware that power struggles in Rs are not good. BF happens to call it 'competing.'
In any event... the greatest line I can apply to understanding the power struggle is: 'The only way to win is not to play the game.' I don't care how you get to the understanding, but get there if you can. I truly believe that once ONE person in the R truly understands the pure destructiveness of power plays, or competing, within an R and STOPS doing it... the R can and WILL change.
I truly believe that once ONE person in the R truly understands the pure destructiveness of power plays, or competing, within an R and STOPS doing it... the R can and WILL change.
That makes sense but I'm not sure I understand how to apply this knowledge. What actions does Heather need to take to stop competing with her H and change their R? Hairdog?
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
I truly believe that once ONE person in the R truly understands the pure destructiveness of power plays, or competing, within an R and STOPS doing it... the R can and WILL change.
Maybe, maybe not. Understanding the issues is one thing, feeling differently about them is another. I think there are plenty of people here who understand their relationship dynamics perfectly well, yet cannot get a change to come about. I think that if only one person is aware of the problems from power plays, competition, etc, they can stop SOME of the destruction, but not all of it. The R might change from one screwed up state to another, but that may not be enough to save the marriage.
The only hope as I see it is for BOTH people to see what they need to see, however that needs to be done. Not pushing too hard for change out of respect for the “rights” or beliefs of your spouse could be a dodge to avoid guilt, guilt in the present. Later, after the D, that guilt may come back to haunt you as you realize the things you could have done to save the marriage had you just pushed harder. Which is better to avoid – guilt today or guilt in the future?
OTOH, pushing hard enough to force a change in the R for sake of opening the other person’s eyes so they can learn what they need to know (whatever it is that they don’t know until they know it) could save the R. The guilt is that you may have “manipulated” the other person. But isn’t it easier for that “manipulated” person to forgive the other because that “manipulation” was really for the best interests of the marriage and resulted in something that “manipulated” person is thankful for – a happy R?
Quote: That makes sense but I'm not sure I understand how to apply this knowledge. What actions does Heather need to take to stop competing with her H and change their R? Hairdog?
That is what they are on here to learn. And a thing truly is not learned until it is applied... otherwise, it is just peripheral knowledge (to a large degree). Heather has to decide what she has to do to stop competing with her H. I can make suggestions... but I am not her and I do not live with her H. Same goes for Hairdog.
As Edison always said, I did not fail 999 times. I found 999 ways NOT to make a light bulb.
Heather will continue to try until she finds her way, or she decides to give up. That's how you apply it.
. It is an excellent book - I flew through it. Goes a long way to explaining my sitch and I think a long way to explaining a lot of others on this board.
