How long ago didi she confessed to you? I know my H didn't feel much for me when he came back in April, I am bitting my tongue about asking him if he loves me now. He has very gradually warmed up to me but I did have to do all the work at the beginning, so by now I know his feelings are different, so I'm guessing your W's feelings have also changed.
Guess we tend to get hung up on the initial negative feedback we got from our spouses, though we arent where we want to be we are in a better place. I think lingering kisses do mean something, you get what you give, if you are being affectionate w/her some of that affection, even a little, is bound to come back to you.
I also second guess myself, wondering if I should play hard to get at the danger of making him think I am back to my desinterested self from these past years. So I go w/what feels right to me, if I really want him to initiate but want him to also show interest I just cuddle w/him and see where it goes, if he is not into it for the night he'll eventually move away after a good night kiss.. and then I teach myself to be happy w/that and not resent him.
Look at the progress you've achieved all these months, like a line chart, if the line has progressively gone up, even by a quarter inch, then there is progress, e.i. a lingering kiss, kissing back, etc
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
TL, I feel for you. My H has said basically the exact same thing:
Quote: One of the things that has plagued me/us is my W's confessed lack of attraction and desire for me.
See my thread "As good as it gets" in Piecing. I got some really good feedback from Always 14, Muddle and GH to name a few. It sucks and hurts my feelings more than anything. Then I start second guessing why I am working so hard to be with a man who does not want me. But I am not a quitter and will not give up, I just keep pluggin along in hopes of a brighter future.
cat...she's said that all along back when I used to ask her...sort of like, "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?" that our kids used to do on car trips. I quit asking weeks ago because in the end it didn't help any and even if it didn't bother me, it bothered her to talk about it, so I had to just drop it.
It doesn't really bother me anymore so much. Aside from what's important to me as an individual and as a Christian, I could take this marriage or leave it right now.
I guess I've just noticed real small changes in how she relates to me now in terms of affection, but don't know if it means anything or not.
If we'd just been dating a while I'd think going from pecks to softer, lingering kisses were a sign that things were progressing, getting more serious. I don't know what it means, if anything, in this kind of sitch.
But you can see why I get in trouble. I'm analytical by nature, and analyze for a living, so it's just what I do
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
and women are very emotional by nature, so that's why I think those small changes are meaningful.
Quote: and analyze for a living
Umm, another puzzle piecein the quest to reveal who's TL
And now a hijack, no body panic, it's a hormone take over from that time of the month... I was seriously thinking of going or even paying up to have ow's stupid expensive (I know her ebay name) wreaths spray painted, I was fantasicing w/doing some damage, please tell me why that would be a bad idea?
Also, I now are being knawed by the feelings that my H didn't apologize enough and that how IT SEEMS he was fine w/me forgiving him and not doing much to "appease me" about the A. Yes, I was there during our C session where we all agree his mind is totally on his training/new job (he could fail and he'd be out of a job) and that's why he can't fully "focus" on us... some days I feel that isn't fair, that's what got us in a mess when I was the one putting him in the back seat.
The hormones are restless today
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
Quote: please tell me why that would be a bad idea?
Ohhh cat...don't be bad. You already know why it's a bad idea. But I do like the way you think
I'd love to share with you what I had planned for the OM. But, alas, I can't
Quote: and women are very emotional by nature, so that's why I think those small changes are meaningful.
Yeah. One of my biggest mistakes was in forgetting that about my W. It's hard to explain, but she really acts like a guy. And she comes across as very detached and analytical...and she is very objective about a lot of things but it's taken me 12 years and all these disasters to realize she's not when it comes to the personal stuff.
Boy is she ever not!
Even though she doesn't "act emotional", emotions still dictate her decision making more than I ever realized.
Life sure is easier when you pay attention
Quote: Umm, another puzzle piece in the quest to reveal who's TL
TL is northern born, southern bred (by the grace of God), and writes software for a living.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
I don't know if you saw my post of last week, but W and I had a big break in our piecing the week before. One hold out for her was a fear of not getting our SL back or that she could not, would not, or might not like it. We were able to dispell that (FORTUNATELY) and had I not been sidetracked with the surgery of two weeks ago, Lord knows where it might have gone....
So patience I think.
It was killing me too. Leading up to, and through our separation - I was hearing a lot about how our SL sucked - never worked, blah, blah. It simply wasn't true and W finally admitted that to me and our mutual friend that it wasn't ALL bad - but more that it wasn't frequent enough. I don't know about your W, but mine shut down of sorts - very early in our R because of something I said during a ML session - and she punished me ever since. Much of that incident came from almost a sense of shame on MY part of all things.
I've come to realize that there is no reason for me to be ashamed of my desires for my W and to try and translate those things into actions that make it clear to her. The hope (and often it works) is that it will ignite attraction in her leading a stronger bond between us. But, it IS maddening - and slow (which in the end is probably better) - I too have been given a cheek when I want lips or a little linger - for me it ebbs and flows...but through DB/DR, I've learned to WANT this and not NEED it if that makes any sense. One thing that clearly was broken in our R is how little attention I gave my W. She was last in the pecking order. So, if for now, I need to give a little more, so be it.
Quote: It doesn't really bother me anymore so much. Aside from what's important to me as an individual and as a Christian, I could take this marriage or leave it right now
Two good points here. First, moving from need to wants - a position of strength and because of your individual traits, also integrity and honor.
Second however, is I'm not sure I agree with if it bothers you any more. A couple great books - if you want to put that analytical brain to work I would suggest is For Men Only and For Women Only - both by Feldhahn (FMO by Jeff and FWO by Shaunti). Its a spin off of Mars/Venus but supported by surveys etc.
What I found hit the nail on the head was that men need for feel they are significant to their significant other, particularly in the bedroom. I certainly know this was true for me. I was crushed at the notion that I wasn't "satisfying" her which spiraled downward and really hurt my self esteem - pushing me futher away.
On the flip side, women need to feel connected, according to FMO. Speaking first hand, I can tell you when the big "break" happened a couple weeks back - I could FEEL that connection - and it was backed up with what she was saying to me during our ML.
I'm not really sure where I was going with this, but only to get you thinking. And to share some comradery.
What I would suggest is to keep looking for the things that work - and then push them a little bit - but don't be totally bummed out if it backfires from time to time - that is part of the healing - and your W might just be distracted at the moment or whatever.
FMO and FWO I thought were great resources as well - suggested reading - and a quick read. Start with For Men Only - I read in about two nights.
Hope that helps somehow.
Sven
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
I have skimmed those two books, but haven't read em yet. They're on my list. With your recommendation, I'll get on em faster now.
The fact of the matter is, I was one mean, ugly sumb1tch to my wife outside of the bedroom, and I ended up getting pretty bad in there too.
Early on in our M, she and I miscommunicated about some "preferences" in the bedroom, some things she thought were interesting but not interested in pursuing. I wrongly took that to mean she really DID want to pursue it, and it freaked me out. Scared me at first, and I refused to do it, then started getting concerned that if I didn't give her what (I assumed) she wanted, she'd get it from someone who did. So many disasters followed.
So while she liked feeling a little like a "bad girl" every now and then, I ended up just treating her like a whore, and for some reason she never said anything about it, so I just assumed it was what she really wanted, and it snowballed out of control. She admits it wasn't just my fault, but that stuff started up when our communication everywhere else was lousy, so we sure couldn't talk about sex very well either.
Which is why I understand we have such a huge emotional gulf to overcome, even despite her A, and why I do something to treat her like a princess every day, so that she never sees me the other way again.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
Quote: One of the things that has plagued me/us is my W's confessed lack of attraction and desire for me. In other words, mainly when we have sex
TL,
I think you need to look at it as a challenge and figure out how to become amazing in the sack. Start reading some books about women and sex (maybe even get some toys!!! ).
I'll be honest this area bothers me a lot. OW was younger and she was in a sorority in college so I imagine her as being MUCH more experienced than me.
So what I did was start reading about men and sex. I suggest you do the same (although women and sex, of course!!!). And then try experimenting and find out what turns her on. Also, ask her more specifically what she wants. And be AGGRESSIVE!
I don't know how true this is for all women, but I'd think showing sexual interest may get her inspired (so go pinch her butt and tell her she's sexy!).
Sorry if I'm being too graphic....
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Forgive the way this sounds...my W thinks I'm great in the sack. Always has. She has outright told me this, and especially now that I've been lifting weights and running, that part of it is even better for her.
I do all that stuff, really. When I ask her what she likes, what she wants, etc., she says I already do it.
Forgive ME for being too graphic, but she likes fairly boring, straightforward, vanilla missionary position (and occasional rear entry) sex so long as it's passionate and not mechanical. When we were younger she was interested in trying different things but we both kind of got our signals crossed there (see above post) and it turned out bad for us.
Her mantra is...the sexual feelings she doesn't have for me won't bet there via sex but by what happens outside the bedroom.
Also...I'm a pretty HD guy. 5-7 times/week doesn't seem unreasonable to me (if it were just me). Once a week for her is plenty, she says, even if she were burning with desire for me, she couldn't see wanting it more than once/week.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
Hummmm.... Your wife may be one of those ladies who feels more loving if you're helping around the house (i.e. doing dishes with her, talking to her, doing little romantic things once in awhile like flowers, nice compliments... etc...).
My guess is communication and connecting (like Sven wrote on his post) probably make her feel much closer to you and make the SL more comfortable for her.
Unfortunately this whole piecing thing takes time. It's amazing how you can start off with some problems that fuel these As and then afterwards it's like a mountain of garbage to dig through. Those original problems no longer seem so bad!
Well, somehow we'll all get through this.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
