Nothing magical in that comment. I see people all the time that put out a strong, dominant, forceful, confident, independent persona. Underneath it is usually a very insecure person trying to measure up to the rest of the world. They may act like that for tons of reasons, but it is still an attempt to avoid some kind of fear. So they build walls and defenses, create that armor plating, and act the role they wish they really were. Down inside, these people are all scared and just trying to find a sense of security. Seeking validation is all about avoiding fear.
In fact, I find it quite rare to find someone who projects this persona and down inside is really that type of person. In fact, I never met anyone like this and I would be curious to hear if anyone on this board has. As Blackfoot has mentioned several times, the truly confident, dominant, independent person often comes across as a very humble, sometimes soft spoken, non-assertive type.
My W and mother are exactly like this dominant description. Both project an image of strength, independence, of not needing to rely on anyone (especially a man), are competitive and will not take the “weak” path of giving in to demands, instead setting their own terms and demands. But inside those walls, both have fantasies of being protected, nurtured and wanted by the “ideal” compassionate, caring, man who at the same time will give them loads of respect, infinite tolerance, patience and loyalty without any demands. It is a nice “one way street” type of delusion.
I also believe there are other people who have suffered the same types of childhood loss or trauma, but take the other path of playing the ultimate martyr, expressing their self pity, low esteem, sense of loss, all to get compassion form others (maybe Mojo’s H is like this?) There are plenty of willing “takers” to this game plan. Rescuing someone else can be a big ego trip, and lots of people are more than willing to fill that role, gaining unending gratitude from the “victim.” This is actually narcissism on the part of both people. Either way, it is all an attempt to avoid pain and fear.
I think I have a strong need to be the fixer-rescuer-caregiver with a tendency to be overly responsible and guilt ridden. I think it's partly from a sense of goodness/altruism and partly as a way of being in control. My sensuality comes from another place entirely..being vulnerable and submissive. It's easy for me to get that kind of validation in the outside world, but in my H's eyes I am the dominant woman whom he's a bit afraid of. It's hard to back up and reverse these dynamics...but it's been happening here and there, as H gets more mature and confident and I refrain from my mothering, rescuing ways.
As far as my H not O'ing, yeah I take too much reponsibility for that, but the truth is the sex has been bland for me as well because I am trying not to rely on fantasy and just be lovey dovey. So over the weekend I took one of Mojo's suggestions to Lil and pretended to myself that I was a hooker ( but not the jolly type...instead I was the poor girl who had to earn a living this way) and revved up my passionate side, and it was omg fun! I remembered not to stay in fantasy and connect to H as a real person. I have decided there's nothing wrong with a little mind play as long as it's not blocking out relationship problems too much.
I think I have a strong need to be the fixer-rescuer-caregiver with a tendency to be overly responsible and guilt ridden. I think it's partly from a sense of goodness/altruism and partly as a way of being in control.
…. which in turn is a way to protect yourself. So these types of actions are all self centered, to me. I’m not meaning to attack or anything, just that goodness, altruism, and control are all reactions to a deeper issue.
My sensuality comes from another place entirely..being vulnerable and submissive. It's easy for me to get that kind of validation in the outside world, but in my H's eyes I am the dominant woman whom he's a bit afraid of.
What do you do if someone in the outside world rejects you? Do you keep seeing him/her, trying to make yourself better to somehow overcome that rejection? I doubt it. More likely you blow that person off and move on. Can’t really do that with family. They get to state their opinion and you have to listen, whether you like it or not.
It's hard to back up and reverse these dynamics...but it's been happening here and there, as H gets more mature and confident and I refrain from my mothering, rescuing ways.
This is a deflection. Whether you refrain from mothering and rescuing (i.e., controlling your reactions to your own fears) has nothing to do with his maturity and confidence.
Quote: So these types of actions are all self centered, to me. I’m not meaning to attack or anything, just that goodness, altruism, and control are all reactions to a deeper issue.
I would amend this to say that goodness, altruism and control are partly reactions to a deeper issue. That's where analysis comes in...it's an attempt to figure out what's working and what's not. It's the chance to put our best selves forward. We will always control, always give, always do something...are our behaviors healthy? I think that's the qustion we need to ask.
Quote: Whether you refrain from mothering and rescuing (i.e., controlling your reactions to your own fears) has nothing to do with his maturity and confidence.
Well, Cobra, I am going to take Lil's word on it that in any relationship that I'd have, I'd end up doing the mothering/rescuing thing. It's wise for me to take a step back and balance myself better. I don't have as many relationships as Lil has had ( I met H at 21) but before him I was in a 3 yr relationshp with a very alpha type guy...guess what?...I ended up being his therapist/friend. I'm getting out of my own way and enjoying my sensuality, that's all I can do. Coincidentally H is maturing...or is it coincidence?
Quote: as H gets more mature and confident and I refrain from my mothering, rescuing ways
then cobra said
Quote: Whether you refrain from mothering and rescuing (i.e., controlling your reactions to your own fears) has nothing to do with his maturity and confidence.
I didn't get that IHJ was saying that her refraining from mothering was CAUSING her H to be more mature, OR that her H being more mature was CAUSING her to do less mothering.
A very wise older lady friend once said that she didn't believe in "cause and effect" but in "causally connected events." I saw these two things as being "causally connected events."
IHJ verified this when she said:
Quote: I'm getting out of my own way and enjoying my sensuality, that's all I can do. Coincidentally H is maturing...or is it coincidence?
IHJ, if you would email me at Lillieperl at hotmail, I'd like to send you something.
Maybe I wasn't being very clear but I think we’re saying the same thing. IHJ can stop reacting in a controlling way (mothering, rescuing) regardless of what her H does (whether he becomes more or less mature and confident), just as everyone keeps telling me to do. Actually, I do think there could be causality between her stopping her reactivity, prompting/forcing/encouraging/allowing him to acceptance of his responsibilities, though I don’t know how you would prove that. The mix is changing. I personally don’t think it is coincidence, but that’s JMO.
Well, I know that when you get off someone's back and stop bugging them, then you get to see what they do on their own. You get to find out something about them. If you ask someone to go to the movies every Friday night under the assumption that they like movies as much as you do, you don't really know until you STOP asking them to go and find out if they ask YOU. When you insert yourself too much then it's hard to know what the person would be like without you around.
I'm reminded of a song from the musical "Camelot":
Quote: "How to handle a woman?
There's a way," said the wise old man, "A way known by ev'ry woman Since the whole rigmarole began."
"Do I flatter her?" I begged him answer. "Do I threaten or cajole or plead? Do I brood or play the gay romancer?"
Said he, smiling: "No indeed.
How to handle a woman? Mark me well, I will tell you, sir: The way to handle a woman Is to love her...simply love her... Merely love her...love her...love her."
