Quote: I agree that you can choose whether to be the pursuer or not, but it is a lot tougher to control whether to THINK about being the pursuer or not. You will feel what you feel, no matter how you may try. As long as you think you should be the pursuer, thoughts about sex will creep in, and so the pump will prime, even if you consciously choose not to do anything about it.
Throw that responsibility out the window and therefore all thoughts about sex, and the drive will diminish, at least to a point
I agree and that is why I sometimes have to play "mindgames" with myself in order to feel more LD and therefore less angry. For instance, let's say I'm looking at my H's biceps and thinking "Yum" and getting turned on, I can put the brakes on this reaction by asking myself "How would a LDW view my H?". If I then I choose to look at his least yummy physical feature and concentrate on that I can turn off my arousal reaction and be in control. Obviously, this is a very simplistic example and not necessarily something I would recommend for long term relationship success, sort of blunt-force reduction of validation.
Also, it is much easier for me to "think" that I shouldn't be the pursuer than it would be if I were a man. All I have to do is visualize myself as Mrs. Roper and my drive goes right in the toilet.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I think my H and you are very much in the same place or I would say that he was in that place previous to his recent Type 4 breakdown. His "I hate my job." angst, IMO, is really just a reflection of his inability to be his own "patron". He doesn't have a job that fulfills his artistic sensibilities and it also doesn't offer him enough free time to pursue them otherwise. Unfortunately (for him), I am pretty much unwilling to be more of a "patron" in this relationship. I would go cold-stone LD if I felt like I was "paying" for sex. My innate HD comes up against my innate female desire to be the pursued rather than the pursuer and my HD loses.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Interesting, I just went back to my posts one yr ago, to see where I was at this time last yr. My father was in the hospital in early Nov., struggling with pneumonia and almost dying. I can't believe I forgot this. Well, in spite of being in fragile health he and my mom have held on for another year. I am so grateful. Many of you were so helpful through this...thank you.
Hubby and I were struggling along, working on the marriage, trying to reconnect sexually. He had gotten me a cute VS outfit which ended up being a flop and which emphasized the lack of validation I am getting in this marriage.
But pick up the pieces, I did...and work on things, well, I have given my all. I am more realistic that I won't see the kind of desire I was hoping for.
I feel a bit resigned but am moving onto acceptance, as this thread suggests. It's time for me to give the marriage project a rest. I sincerely feel I did my best.
I am not letting myself off the hook as a person...I still want to grow and be the best Journey I can be. And I will continue to follow along here. Just no more marriage expectations.
H initiated an intense convo today which took me by surprise...discussed depression in his father, and how he ( H) has run away from his feelings. He feels he attached himself to me ( I originally had a lot of energy, drive and focus) but he became lost when I would go through my depressive moods. On my part, I have always felt on some level that my emotional self was just not acceptable to H. This thread is about acceptance...maybe he is working on accepting me as well. H said lately he doesn't react the same way when he sees I am in a bad space and that he can separate himself better. He also said that he's had periods where he becomes sad and tearful (thinks about D14 going off to college, among other things). My feeling is that he has more depression in his soul than I do--after all this time, I have developed better resources to deal with my emotions. He really is such a sensitive soul...does a great job covering it up but has paid a price for that. When he parades around with his "jerky" cover it's hard to feel compassionate, yet tonite the mask was transparent, if only for a little while. I think he went overboard in the type 3 achiever stuff and needs to find a better balance, allow his true self to emerge. And it's easy for me to get caught up in his struggle and try to fix him when the best thing is to " just" be supportive.
On the sexual end of things,H is continuing to initiate every other day or so which I really appreciate...however, the last few times he didn't O, which then makes me insecure about myself and that whole validation thing. ( Note to self: it's about love, commitment, and bonding, J).
Okay, I am really recognizing a pattern here...when my H is "off", I become more HD. Then when he is back to his regular ways, I become LD. Our moods just don't coincide...instead they see-saw. I'd like to break this sexual fusion and simply enjoy an innate sense of sensuality. I think the way do do that is to keep to a schedule and allow whatever transpires to just transpire...stay away from expectation and validation. On my part, I am going to try to not be overwhelming when I am HD or be rejecting when I am LD. H's part is offering the regular initiations. In the long term this is probably the best we can do...have a steady sex life without all the weirdo up and down dynamics.
Good observations and insights as usual, IHJ. This
Quote: however, the last few times he didn't O, which then makes me insecure about myself
-- I'd like you to really investigate this line of thinking deeply. Of course, logically, you KNOW having/not having the O is linked to many, many things that have nothing to do with one's partner. I'm wondering what is at the base of your feeling that when he doesn't O it has something to do with-- what? Your attractiveness? Your skill as a lover? Breeze past the first answers that come to you and dig a little deeper... I feel there is some gold down there... gold about YOU. Don't really know what I mean- just a gut feeling.
I think this is very sane and smart
Quote: I think the way do do that is to keep to a schedule and allow whatever transpires to just transpire...stay away from expectation and validation.
The fact that he is initiating regularly is so great. You know, Ms. 4 (artist/romantic), it's kind of like practicing any art-- music, painting, dance-- you go every day to the studio and you practice. Some days it's agony, some days it's ecstasy, some days it's drudgery, most days it's a sweet and comfortable routine. But you know it will be there every day for you. They say with any art you never know when the Angel Muse is going to show up, so you must go to the table/canvas/studio every day, because what if one day the angel is there and you aren't? A sex life like that wouldn't be so bad, now, would it?
"The Enneagram Made Easy" says this about the 3. (This is a good starter Enneagram book, if a bit superficial.)
The positive direction for 3 is toward 6. Various quotes from the section on 3's:
Quote: When 3's move to the positive side of 6 they -spend more time with, and become more committed to, family and friends -value what's best for the group -get more in touch with their feelings -become more vulnerable
When 3's move toward the negative side of 9 they -procrastinate and become indecisive -become apathetic -neglect themselves and possibly numb out with even more work, drugs, food, alcohol, or excessive sleep -run in circles working or become less productive -passive-aggressively punish people who make them look at their shortcomings
Threes at their best in a relationship value and accept their partners. They are playful, giving, responsible, and well-regarded by others in the community.
Threes at their worst in a relationship are preoccupied with work and projects. They are self-absorbed, defensive, impatient, dishonest, and controlling.
What's hard about being a 3-
-having to put up with inefficiency and incompetence -the fear of not being-- or of not being seen as-- successful -comparing myself to people who do things better -struggling to hang on to my success -putting on facades in order to impress people -always being 'on.' It's exhausting.
however, the last few times he didn't O, which then makes me insecure about myself and that whole validation thing.
Maybe he didn’t O because he MB the night before, or maybe that morning. In either case, it has nothing to do with you, and unless he said something or did something to imply you were responsible for his not O’ing, then your thoughts are all about your validation.
I’m with Lil that there could be some insight here for you, especially since you two are “see-sawing” back and forth between LD and HD, between grasping for control and going into P/A mode as the other grasps for control. See-sawing back and forth is also about seeking validation. IMO, being a strong, dominant, independent, type of woman (and I am not saying you are all this, but you do have some of it in you) is about protecting yourself from lack of validation. So, yeah, I also think there is a lot to look into those feelings of rejection.
Quote: See-sawing back and forth is also about seeking validation. IMO, being a strong, dominant, independent, type of woman (and I am not saying you are all this, but you do have some of it in you) is about protecting yourself from lack of validation . So, yeah, I also think there is a lot to look into those feelings of rejection.
Well there's a concept I've not thought on. Independent,dominate, strong personality needing validation. I was of the opinion that this was more of the lower self esteme, personality. Heck, the strength that is brought out/to the surface to mask inferiority can project that independence. Or is that what you mean? Do you have more on this?
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
