Starting over -- one more time!

[matilda]

Well, I decided the name for my new thread is aprapoe considering I feel like I'm starting over again after the original bomb of 10/1/01. Geez, do I have the strength?

For those who may visit this thread and not know my story and are interested, please see my most recent thread titled "Is it love or is it guilt?" I think that tells most of it. I really, really don't want to go into all the details again. Very bad for my PMA.

It's only been a month since H's latest bomb, and I've doing relatively well. Maybe that's because I've had so many months of DB'ing under my belt; maybe because I had time to work out some of the pain in between the two bombs; maybe I don't consider the latest bomb (EA) to be as painful as the PA; or maybe I simply am just going numb after the emotional onslaught.

I must say I find myself asking the question, "Do I really want to remain married to a man who has caused me so much pain?" The answer to that is not nearly as clear as it once was. Yes, I still love my H, but is that enough? I really don't think so. I can still love him and not be with him. I am afraid of him. I am afraid that he will once again abuse my love and my trust.

It is very hard to reconcile how a person who professes to love me so much could have done the things he's done. Okay, yes, he was in MLC or emotional crisis or whatever -- but so what? Did he lose all his knowledge of right and wrong? Where did his honor and integrity go? When did he decide it was okay to be so extraordinarily selfish?

So, that is where I am at the moment. What a horrible place to be -- to love somebody who you trusted wholeheartedly and to be betrayed by that person so despicably. It is hard to imagine a life with him. It is hard to imagine a life without him. There is so much damage. I just don't know if I want to deal with it anymore.

I need to talk to my H, and yet I'm afraid to. I'm told -- don't initiate OR talks; don't bring up the OW(s); give him space; give him time to heal, etc, etc. Him, him, him. Hasn't he had way too much time thinking of only himself? Am I really doing him/us any favors by keeping my mouth shut?


So, having said all that, let me update you a little. I haven't been able to get online and post since they changed the format -- had to get my password changed -- what a pain!!

H has a C appt this evening. They are to discuss depression a little more. One night H told me he really wants some medication (along with the therapy) because he's really feeling bad. He said he can look back now and see when the depression started (PA) and that it has gotten worse over time. The EA seemed to only deepen his depression. In his words he is "totally screwed up."


H says he has no passion for anything (including me). He gets no enjoyment out of any of the things he once loved to do. He said if I sat him down and said I wanted to sell the Harley and the motorhome, he's be okay with it. His libedo is very low -- although he initiates most nights and I pick up the slack the rest of the time. I know he wants to keep that area of intimacy open between us no matter what. I know he at least enjoys the closeness and comfort of our intimate times together. He is confident the passion will return as his depression lifts. I am pretty much without passion myself these days -- that old "numb " feeling I spoke about above. He can't sleep, either. He's just bone tired. And then add into the mix all the physical symptoms he's been having relating to stress and anxiety and, yes, you've got one really messed up person.


All in all, though, I can see a change in him since I discovered the EA. He is more loving with me. He notices when I seem down and askes me about it. He's being very considerate (most of the time). He's starting to talk more openly -- on his own.


The other night when we were talking about depression, I asked if he was depressed because he wasn't in contact with the EA and was missing that contact. He said he hadn't really thought about it (her?). He didn't like thinking about things that made him feel bad.


So, does it make him feel bad because of what he's lost or does it make him feel bad for what he might have lost (me/kids/home/family/friends, etc.)?


I told him I thought that was kind of odd that he didn't think about "it". He asked why. I said because it must have been a real shock to have it end the way it did after so long.


He said it was a shock -- a horrible shock -- the way it all happened with me and the kids, and then our friends and my family knowing all about it. The fact that I was asking him to leave and telling him it was over. That was the shock, he said, that shocked him back into reality.


Something very strange happened a little while ago. I have been wanting to ask my H if there has been any contact with the EA, but in my best DB fashion I haven't asked. The past couple of days, however, it was really driving me nuts. I guess I really expect her to let some time pass and then try to jump start things again.


Well, this morning my H called me from the car just 10 minutes after leaving. He asked me if I'd felt him touching my back about 6:00 a.m. this morning? I said, come to think of it I might have felt that, but I was so tired I just fell back asleep. He said he was awake and thinking about something he wanted to tell me, so he was just testing the waters to see if I was awake.


Folks, everytime my H says he has something to tell me I get this ache in my stomach. Hurts like hell.


What he wanted to tell me was that there has been no contact with the EA, either by phone or email. He realized I hadn't asked him about it, but he thought I'd like to know.


Wow, I was shocked. He actually volunteered information?! I thanked him for telling me; that it meant a great deal to me to not have to ask him. He said that was all he called to tell me, and we said our good-byes.


I am very proud of myself for not asking the question that was lurking on my tongue: "Why were you thinking about her and the fact that you haven't had any contact with her? Does that mean that you're missing her? Wondering how she's doing?" Nope. Didn't ask. Just thanked him for telling me.


So, it seems like he is really wanting to start over this time. Seems like he wants it to be just the two of us walking through life together. Keep praying for us, please. There is still so much hurt, anger, pain and sorrow to wade through.


Matilda

[RMC]

MAttie-I am so where you are with the trust issue. It's the worst thing in the world to have been betrayed like we have.I can identify with every single thing you said. I have been contemplating asking to see the cell phone records since they go to his office. Most people say don't do it. I say why? Don't they owe us a little peace of mind after the hell they put us through? My H says its over and there has been abslutely NO contact since he broke it off with her. I do know he did not want her life or baggage and would never have married her but she was good enough to keep around for 2 1/2 yrs for some reason. He says he wanted all the things he had with her to be with me. I am trying to be everything to him. His attitude has changed alot towards me-he does not have the anger, but he's picked up some bad habits like smoking, not wearing his safety belt-all things that would indicate guilt. At least in the mindset I'm in. OThers say its normal. I don't even begin to know what's normal. My life has been a total disaster since this happened. I don't even feel like I have one. The panic and anxiety are so bad I have to be on medication and had to take a leave of absence from work. I'm no where ready to go back. I feel safest at home, and not until I get some level of trust back will I feel like I can function like a normal human being again. Our hearts were ripped out of us. I, like you have wondered if I can live this way-not being able to trust him, and like you I can't imagine living the rest of my life like this and I can't imagine living it without him. I don't have one single answer-I wish he would offer me the assurance your H offered you without asking for it. I asked him to do that for me and he said he would but he has not done it yet on his own. I'm not sure why. When I ask him he is very reassuring and does not get upset that I ask-he has told me to ask him. Well... I have asked him to tell me without having to ask and he has not. I told him I needed that. He still has not. I don't know if its becasue he is trying to avoid the pain of the subject or because he does not want to willingly lie to me. He does tell me he loves me and never stopped. SOmehow that does not make the pain go away. I know there are alot of people on this board that are waiting to hear ILY from thier S. I'm just taking it one painful day to another right now not knowing how it will end up. He does not see all this insecurity in me. I hide it well from him so he does not get overwhelmed with it but he knows I have it anad the panic and anxiety are linked directly to him. I just want to TRUST again. I know you do too, an dI know there is no easy way to do it. My H says it will just take time. It's been 5 months since he broke it off with her and I still feel horrible. I don't like living like this but I don't know what to do except take it a day at a time and look at how he treats me and maybe bring up the cell phone thing in C. I feel for ya, because I'm right there too! Rachael M.

[matilda]

H had his session with the C last night. He said they didn't talk about depression any more -- the C forgot he wanted H to fill out a questionaire!! They will do it next week.

H said the topic of conversation was really all over the board -- said he was having a hard time following. For what he told me, it sounded like more fact-gathering and the C trying to get an idea where H stands emotionally.

I asked if they talked about his feelings for the EA at all. H said no, that was never brought up. He wonders if the C just discounts that part of the equation as part of H's "illness." I told him that I doubted that very much. I said I felt that maybe the C was just trying to find out what was "real" to H. They did talk about setting goals for therapy, too.


I told H I needed to know where he stood as far as the EA. Again, he said he hasn't really thought about her. When he thinks about stuff that hurts it's usually about the PA and how sick it makes him to think about what he did. He can't understand why he did it and he can't understand why he told me about it. I reminded him that he told me a couple of weeks ago that one of the reasons he told me was because he feels he wanted me to kick him out so he'd be free to pursue the EA. He told me last night that that was just supposition on his part. He really doesn't have a clue. He said the EA hadn't really gotten very far at that point. So, I'm really confused, but then so is he!!

I thank him again for telling me there had been no contact with the EA. He said he felt bad that he hadn't said something before. He knows I don't want to ask and he doesn't want me thinking about it. He said, "I told you I'd tell you if there was contact, so you can imply if I don't say anything that there has been no contact." Interesting. I suppose I could imply that if I could trust him. Maybe he's forgotten that little tidbit, huh?


Somehow the conversation got around to him saying she (the EA) doesn't want anything to do with him. I don't him I couldn't care less what she wanted -- it's what he wants that concerns me. He said that obviously if he wanted anything more to do with her, he could contact her, couldn't he? He didn't want to contact her, therefore, he wants nothing more to do with her. Then I asked him, "If it's true that the EA doesn't want anything to do with you any more, how do you feel about that?" I forget the exact word he used, but basically he said he felt dispassionate about it -- it didn't make any difference to him.

I'd love to believe all that, but it's really hard to.

This weekend we're going to the beach for the weekend -- the same beach community that the XPA lives in!! H keeps asking me if I'm looking forward to going. It's like he's completely blocked it from his mind that I will ALWAYS have a problem going back there. It is getting better each time we go, I have to admit, but it will be a reminder to me forever. At least this time I will have the support of our best friends who now know the situation. They'll help keep things on track.

Here's to me keeping my own chin up!!


Mattie

[matilda]

Boy, I kinda feel like I've been talking to myself lately. Where is everybody?

H and I are leaving for the beach tonight. Kids come up tomorrow after school. Just the thought of going back there brings up so much pain. I've had a knot in my stomach all day. I'd really like to talk to H about things, but he's in such a good mood (or at least acting as if) that I don't want to put a damper on things.


I've been mulling over the EA that my H was involved with. If they had such strong feelings for each other, how could it just end so abruptly? If my H was telling me not long ago that he didn't love me anymore and wasn't committed to our M, how could his feelings for me change so abruptly? If the EA meant so much to him how can he not be thinking about her -- at least occasionally?

It occurs to me that each time I've asked him about his feelings for the EA he side-steps me. He will give an answer like, "I don't think about it (her)." "My feelings are changing." At one point a few weeks ago when I asked him if he still had feelings for her he said, yes, but they were diminishing. He also said, "what would you think if I said I my feelings gone all of a sudden? You wouldn't believe it." Well, yeah, so how do I believe that his feelings for me miraculosly changed overnight?

It's been almost a year since the bomb was dropped -- Oct. 1. This weekend marks the 2 yr anniversary of what I think of as the beginning of my H's emotional crisis. I know two years ago when we were at the beach the PA and her kids came by our motorhome when my H was there by himself. They were obviously involved enough by then that she knew just where to find him. So, maybe you can understand why this will be a difficult weekend for me.


Two years since start of H's emotional crisis. During that time my H has professed his love for two other women. Where do I fit into all that? Where was I?

One year (almost) since 1st bomb dropped.


One month since 2nd bomb dropped.


Where will we be next year at this time? Scary thought.


Off now for fun in the sun. My GF and I may be going on a little OW hunt over the weekend. She informs me she has a need to "kick some ass." Me, too.


Have a wonderful labor day weekend, everyone.

Mattie

[healedbutscarred]

MATTIE...SORRY I haven't been in touch. For a couple of days I had trouble posting. Got that straightened out and just now found your new thread!! You sounded so upbeat the last time we "talked" so it was hard reading that you are having all these doubts and fears!! I so wish I had the words that would comfort you and help you somehow. Just remember that I am here for you..to listen,support,console,sympathize and give any advice I possibly can!!

I remember when I went through the ordeal of having H emailing the XOW after he told me she was out of his life and that he would let me know if he heard from her and that he wouldn't respond to her if she did contact him. I was so hurt and angry that he could betray me once again! He didn't see it as betrayal and he really didn't feel he was being unfaithful!! Sometimes I wonder where his head is!! Anyway,that was a big set back and I told him that it further hindered my ability to trust. I heard Dr. Phil say on a talk show one time that if your mate breaks off an A but stays in contact with the OP,it means they have unresolved issues with that person and with their feelings toward them. Now,my H claimed that he never told her he loved her and even later down the road claimed that he really had no "real" feelings for her. But it seemed to me that his actions told a different story. Somehow it was hard to make him see that. My H is a very intelligent man and usually has a lot of common sense but I was amazed at his inability to grasp the things I was saying!! I truly felt that he emailed her ocassionally after ending the "fling" because he did have some sort of feelings for her. I also feel like now those feelings no longer exist. I think part of what he told me was true however,he felt guilty that he had used her and hurt her and that was part of the reason he felt he "needed" to try and stay friendly.

My H has this uncanny ability to put things away in his mind and move on. Oh,I believe he does think about them from time to time but he wouldn't admit it !! It has been a long time since I have even mentioned anything about the past events. I know he likes that and I am sure he is feeling that I too have finally "put it behind" like he has. But that is a long way from being the way it is. I hate to admit it but there are still times when I find myself wondering if I can really and truly trust him!! I don't feel that way very often and I hate it when I do but feel helpless to stop it!! Is this the price we are going to have to pay for the rest of our lives because our H's betrayed us? I feel like sometimes,he feels that because I forgave him and made all the changes,everything is totally back to normal and perfect!! He really doesn't "get it"!! Things will NEVER EVER be totally normal again!! I love this man with all my heart and soul and I always will but that doesn't change the fact that he betrayed that love and even though I forgave I will never ever forget!!

Maybe I'm a fool to let him go on thinking that everything is perfect just because I never mention it and that it is out of my mind. But I honestly feel that if I do bring it up it only makes him think about "her" and believe me the less he thinks about "her" the better!!!! I am honestly doing ok though!!I feel good about me and I feel that I am really loved and appreciated! Anytime I need to talk about what happened,I come here and feel better!! I need to learn to curb my "over active" imagination and I'll do even better!! My H often tell me that can really come up with some weird thoughts !!

I know I haven't given you any advice Mattie but to be perfectly honest I don't know what to tell you. All I can say is that you have worked so hard and you have been patient,understanding and loving toward your H even when he probably didn't deserve it!! It's an old cliche and I know you get tired of hearing it but.....TIME DOES HEAL!! Hopefully in time your H will get to the root of his problems. It does sound like he is trying!! There really isn't a "time frame" to go by. People move at their own speed. All I can say is "hang in there!!" If you love this man (and I know you really really do) and you feel your R is worth saving (and I think you do)then you'll do whatever you have to in order to make things right. Remember that it's your H with the major problems,it's your H who has messed up the R and it is your H that has to make things right!! It's a good sign that he is volunteering the info about not hearing from the OW. Sometimes I wish my H had done more of that!! Just continue to show him love and support but at the same time do things that make you feel good,do things for Mattie and do whatever you feel necessary to make things bearable!! (If you feel like kicking OW butt...if it'll make you feel better...GO FOR IT!!!!!! !!!!)It may be against DB principles but hey,every now and then "a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do" !!

Just remember that I am here (I may not post immediately but I will get back to you)and if you need to email me or send me a PM!! I think about you and you are in my prayers every single night!!

Your Friend,PAT

[lisakate32]

matties, i often feel like i am talking to myself, but it's ok, as long as i'm listening! when you and gf are out on your ow hunt can you swing down to cape cod and bag a couple here for me! i am really too busy taking care of a toddler and getting ready for my preschool program. lisa

[RMC]

Mattie-I feel like I get eaten up alive by the mistrust thing but its REALLY hard to get it back after you have found out your H has had an A for over 2 yrs! What do you do with that? He is home now and says there has been no contact. How do I beleive that for one second? How do you get the trust back? Time? He was lyiing to me the whole time he was in the A. They think tht because they come home and say they are going to be faithful that we just beleive that?? It really eats away at me and I don't know how to stop it. You have been through it twice. I can't get my imagination to stop long enough to stop having anxiety and panic attacks. I want to move past this point but don't know how to begin. Any thoughts?

[ANS]

Hi Mattie,

Wish I had more time for the boards lately. Here’s my two cents on your latest:

So, does it make him feel bad because of what he's lost or does it make him feel bad for what he might have lost (me/kids/home/family/friends, etc.)?

Of course its about what he almost lost. He had a choice, and he chose you. Everything you’ve posted tells me that he feels bad about himself for what he’s done, and what he put in jeaopardy.

Folks, everytime my H says he has something to tell me I get this ache in my stomach. Hurts like hell.

Me too. I think we all can relate to that. He’s told you so many things that turned your world upsidedown. How can you not get scared when he has something to announce? But, as things get better, this too shall pass.

I am very proud of myself for not asking the question that was lurking on my tongue: "Why were you thinking about her and the fact that you haven't had any contact with her? Does that mean that you're missing her? Wondering how she's doing?" Nope. Didn't ask. Just thanked him for telling me.

An that just illustrates why we have to shut up. Had you asked, would either of you felt better?

Don't they owe us a little peace of mind after the hell they put us through?.

You may be right, Rachael. Problem is that since you don’t trust him, there’s nothing he can say that’ll give you peace of mind.

My H says it will just take time. It's been 5 months since he broke it off with her and I still feel horrible. I don't like living like this but I don't know what to do except take it a day at a time and look at how he treats me and maybe bring up the cell phone thing in C.

He’s right Rachael. Like I said, there’s nothing he can do to speed things up. Until you trust what he says, what can he say that’ll make you feel better? Hang in there, Rachael. It’ll happen, but like the boxer of my thread, you just gotta hang in there.

If they had such strong feelings for each other, how could it just end so abruptly

Because it was wrong, and he knows it. Even subconsciously, he knows it, and once he decided to put the stoppers on it, it was truly over.

My H has this uncanny ability to put things away in his mind and move on. Oh,I believe he does think about them from time to time but he wouldn't admit it !! It has been a long time since I have even mentioned anything about the past events. I know he likes that and I am sure he is feeling that I too have finally "put it behind" like he has. But that is a long way from being the way it is. I hate to admit it but there are still times when I find myself wondering if I can really and truly trust him!! I don't feel that way very often and I hate it when I do but feel helpless to stop it!!

That’s a skill I wish we all had LOL. But you’re right, Pat. If you bring it up, you’re sabotaging his “gift” to put it in the past. And the past is where you want it, don’t you?

Hope you have a wonderful labour day weekend, too.

Andy

[Glo]

Hi Mattie,

I just moved into this board ("Facing Life with a Smile and a Wink") ---I'd been posting on MLC.

I can relate to everything you're going through, and all of your questioning.

I wonder if they know how often our stomaches sink? We've gotten so used to the roller coaster, we're still reacting to the ride.

Have you ever been to sea? I don't like boats any more than roller coasters, but was roped into a family trip on a boat for a week.
When we got back to land, we still had sea legs. We still swayed, the land didn't seem stable---my H couldn't even drop a kleenex into the trash can once! It kept falling to either side!

That is where we're at. The ride is still going on internally, even if our S's say the ride is over.

As far as how our S's could descend into lies, backstabbing, cheating, I came up with a theory on how they could. It doesn't EXCUSE them, it just explaines their reasoning.
I'm going to put it in the next post, because my machine has been freezing up...

[Glo]

ok, my theory on why their heads seem screwed on backwards:

My H actually thought he and OW were "nice" and I was "mean!"

This is why---he was convinced that he and OW had TWOO LUVVV, and so he was looking at the ENDS and not the MEANS of his own behavior.
All the lying and sneaking around wasn't "meant" to "hurt" me---it was meant to *spare* me while he was arranging his life so he could spend it with his TWOO LUV.

Incredible, huh? But that was how he viewed it!

I, on the other hand, was a witch because I *MEANT* to "hurt" them! He was looking at my means (for instance, I'm a poet and write scathing poems about OW) and not my ends---to hold together my family!

He was selectively looking at my actions, and his actions, only with a view of whether they promoted his TWOO LUV or not.

He would react most vehemently when I found ways to highlight the hypocrisy of his actions. For instance, when I DBed---the "nicer" I was the more he writhed because he could no longer justify his actions and world view.

Anyway, it doesn't make it any easier to accept that our spouses could reason so poorly, but this (IMO) is "how" they came to lie, sneak, justify all that poor behavior.

Glow