Muddle's Waters V

[believing_isaiah43]

Oh, Muddle. You know how crazy this woman makes me. Truly, there is no way to win with her. You have the patience of Job. May you be blessed with peace thru this season, and a reward at the end of the journey. I am rooting for you.

[MuddleThrough]

Thanks guys. You know, marital problems are never one person's fault, so as long as they exist I have a job to do. I have to be productive and action oriented regarding my part in them.

Yesterday was a bit of a whirlwind. Everytime I interacted w/W she was nasty to me - angry, cold, distant, upset, miserable. Last night it all came out in a tirade, with her yelling and screaming at me. A couple of key points: "I'm only miserable when you're around, I'm fine in every other aspect of my life. You are what's wrong with my life, if I could just pluck you up and out of it I would be fine. I regret that you and I are joined in any way. I wish you weren't my son's father."

Well, yesterday was a bit of a rough day. I got up a bit late because we were home late after travelling. S4 got up even later - in fact I had to wake him up. He was miserable - crying and hypersensitive - so it was really difficult to get him dressed and ready for school. Well, we got out the door late, so late that I didn't even let S4 run downstairs to say goodbye (we were going to call from the car). And then the car doesn't start! It turns over and over but doesn't catch. Turns out it's not getting fuel. I checked a couple of things while S4 went in to tell W we were having trouble. No fuel to the rail, no priming of the pump, fuse is good. Fuel pump is down - damn, I just replaced it about a year ago. Well, after all my attempts to get it started, I can't. S4 is just above the weight limit on the bike seat I have, and he has outgrown his helmet. It's the only other form of transportation we have. I go inside and tell W that the car's not going to start and I'm unable to get S4 to school. I'm going to get on my bike and ride to work. W got really upset that she wasn't going to have the time alone that she was expecting. She was angry and resented me for the fact that things didn't go as she planned. I guess this is why she hated me all day. I had so much work to catch up on (still do) when I finally got to work. It was a full day. When I got home, water was boiling on the stove. I went downstairs to find W folding laundry, looking really pissed and flustered. I asked her how she was doing and she responded with a really nasty "how do you think - I'm great, really great". I noticed that she was in the process of IMing with OM too. Well, I had to use the bathroom, so I went upstairs. W seemed really upset, but I stayed detached from her mood. S4 came upstairs and after a bit I asked him to go downstairs and ask mommy if she would like me to make dinner (since the water was boiling when I walked in and she wasn't making any effort to do anything - and she seemed so stressed and unhappy). He came up and told me that she had said yes, and that he wanted fiori (he picked this out at the store himself and has been relatively obsessed with having it since!). So I made it for him. Later, I came to find that W had planned to cook something else and she was angry that I had made what I did. After I put S4 to bed, I talked with W a bit. This was preceded by some texting:

W: Oh & your completely incompetent wife forgot to get bread at the store and S4 wanted clementines too.
M: I don't have an incompetant wife.
W: No, just a crazy one, right?
M: No, I married a wonderful woman that I consider myself very lucky to have known. She has tought me more about life, love and myself than I thought possible.
W: Then why do you insist on torturing me? I planned all day what to have for dinner & you ruined it. yet I'm the one feeling awful as usual. I'm fine until you try to "help". And then I get blamed for everything & treated like I'm some kind of nut.
M: I certainly don't mean to torture you and I am sorry it feels that way. I messed up dinner. Again, I am sorry you feel bad about this, and that you feel like a nut after interacting with me. It must be frustrating to come away from conversations feeling that way. Thanks for sharing your feelings with me.

I got a book while we were away called "What to do when someone you love is depressed" that has been somewhat helpful to read. W saw it and seems to find some pleasure in telling me that I got it too late - our relationship is over, so I shouldn't bother. "Maybe your next wife will be depressed too, so it will serve some purpose." One of the things they talked about in the book is that depressed people are often looking for help even if they don't seem to be (in the case of suicides, people are ambivalent to the very end and if offered help, they generally take it - hence emergency phones on bridges that go directly to mental health hotlines). At one point she was so crazed that I asked her if she would like to go to the hospital. I think this is why she felt like a nut. After things calmed down I explained to her that she has complained that I didn't do more in regard to her depression, and that now I was trying to be sensitive to it and act appropriately. I told her that I want to be there for her because I care about her, regardless of where our relationship goes. She told me that I don't know how to love her and that I never have. But I think I got through to her a bit. I ran out to get a salad and a sandwich and when I got back, she asked me to eat with her. She even invited me to sit on her bed with her (something she never does - she usually gets mad when I sit on her bed), and she seemed to enjoy a bit of closeness. She later told me that she doesn't want to fight with me.

All in all, I feel like it was a bit of progress. There was some resolution to our conflict. It's still somewhat confusing to me as to how to approach this all - I'm a bit frustrated by where I am intellectually, spiritually and otherwise relative to my sitch. There's such a stark contrast, and the tendency is to want to blame the disparity on my W. I can't do that. I know there are gaps in my own worldview. While my W has her issues, and they are spread out all over the table, mine are there too, and I need to make sure I don't use the fact that her issues exist and are at the forefront of this sitch to excuse myself from working on mine. All I know is that I am happy while I'm with my W or without. I will not allow anyone or anything to take that away from me. I take that as proof that I'm headed down the right path. I may end up on it without my W, I can't control that, but I'm headed the right way.

[NikB]

Wow Muddle - you are doing great. I am impressed at how detached you're able to be, especially with the kinds of things your W said to you. Ouch.

I can see why you'd be so confused, but it seems like you're handling things really well.

[mepicurus]

Muddle,

I've been looking over what you're saying here, and I have to tell you that you are showing the patience of a saint. The good grace you've shown is an inspiration.

I really hope you see a break in the clouds soon. Hang in there.

[grasshopper]

Muddle,

Sorry I'm not around as much but you're one of the people I still keep tabs on even if I don't post that much.

Please stay strong. I am lurking and will jump in if you want me to/I see the need.

GH

[whatisis]

Muddle, when she says "your incompetent W just forgot..." say NOTHING! It's a trap. She sets you up knowing you'll jump in. Change the dynamic and don't go for it. You don't go for the enemies strongest point cuz they are ready for you.Flank her, man She knows how to fight this one so refuse to go for it. Pick your "battles" where you feel you can make a difference. This one is a no win. I know you don't want to WIN, but we're talking strategy here! That's my 2 cents anyway.

[MuddleThrough]

Thanks Whatis, but there's another issue there, and that is that my W gets enraged when I don't answer a set-up yes-no question directly, or at all. She wants to put me in a box, and either box is going to show me in a bad light. So in that situation, I thought it best to answer the way I did. If I don't answer the question I'm just put in another box! So, I will often answer a question with another question (which is a pet peeve of hers and infuriates her) or I'll speak my mind about something that I see as the real, deeper issue. Last night we were talking and getting somewhere - she asked me a question like that, a multiple choice question with no right answer, and I gave her my answer. I was leading somewhere and she refused to continue talking at this point. She lost control of the discussion and refused to continue. For lack of a better word, it's a no win situation. I am at a loss when it comes to finding a better way out of these traps. I think I'm getting somewhere in that I'm not swayed so much by her anger or intimidation. I stand my ground and give her an answer that I stand by.

GH, it's good to know you're standing by. Especially considering your transition into successful piecing. I too lurk on your thread, and it's great to see you doing so well. Have you ever read Ellis' work with Rationalism? You might find it worth reading. Hop in whenever you see the opportunity!

I find it so interesting that my W is able to hold and maintain the belief that I'm what's wrong with her life. I didn't think anyone, especially when they are under the care of a therapist, would hold such a view. But I guess it ties in quite neatly with my perception of the justification of a cheating spouse. Superficial facts can always be used to justify aversion. I feel bad, you're around me while I feel bad - therefore the causal leap is made, even though there's nothing substantiating it and there are multiple other ways of interpreting what's going on - so you must be what's wrong, and without whatever is wrong I'm going to be all right! Simple, straightforward, concise, understandable. A great worldview to hold if you want to be miserable. Love is an action, if you love yourself and others you will act positively and constructively in your life and in relationship with other people. There should be no difference who the person is, that good will and brotherly love should be there to some degree or another. This is why I draw a distinction between loving my W and being in a relationship with her. I will always love her, even if I decide that I would be better off without her. On the otherhand, my W's actions seem very destructive, if you work to eliminate things in your life, you work to destroy, even if what you destroy is dangerous or bad or even evil. If this is your focus, love doesn't really exist in you. If you look at this from a slightly different perspective, once you perceive something, you have molded a part of yourself in the image of this thing. In destroying it, you destroy a part of yourself. Not exactly an expression of self love, an element that is necessary for loving others. It's idealism, I know, but in striving for it, one does truly increase their capacity to love and the love they feel. It's amazing to me that here, 11 months later, I FEEL loved. No, my W doesn't do anything to love me, quite the opposite. I am putting it out there, and it comes back. Some parts of this journey are such a dark desperate pit, one that can trap you in the comfort of the suffering within, one that tempts you to dwell there. Yet, in the midst of all the negativity, I have found a joy, peace, and healthy happiness that is not dependant on others.

[whatisis]

Ahh, Muddle, if only she could use her genius for good instead of evil! This woman could save the world
I guess you just go with whatever will cause the least damage: duck and cover!
I do understand what you mean when you say that despite this journey you feel loved. I tell people on this BB that this terrible time can indeed be a time that makes you a happier and healthier person. It must seem so odd to read for newcomers. Personally, this traumatic experience has opened doors for me that I never considered or chose to leave closed. I have more people to support me than I have fingers, my W has none. I think by acknowledging all the good and positive, despite the negative, we keep afloat. You make me proud to be an LBS! Seriously, you are doing great.

[MuddleThrough]

You might be right, Whatis. Hopefully she'll get to a place in her life where she can save her own world.

I do understand and have compassion for the feeling of being trapped that my W has. I think I can relate a bit in that I too feel a bit trapped in the situation, as there's no "easy" option regarding the relationship - ending it or fixing it both are tough tasks, one more difficult to see acheiving a satisfactory outcome, the other more costly initially and in the long run. But I have stopped fighting it, for the most part. I have been living in the moment, day to day, and truly enjoying myself and my life. I don't think I'm burying my head in the sand here (although I know I practice selective denial to a certain degree - I think this is necessary for happiness and health), I'm being proactive about a lot in my life now that I let slide in the past.

I care now where I didn't before. That's one of the things that I think eludes my W's view of me. She is constantly telling me, trying to prove to me that my actions don't convey that I care about her, even though there are just as many actions that convey that I do. It's her choice to perceive them. It is confusing now to know how much of an investment I should be making - and I think I do a good deal - as opposed to what she seems to think I should be doing but am not. I know that she uses manipulative tactics to try and control my behavior, and this is one of them. She will tell me that I'm not acting like I love her - with the expectation that I try and jump through her hoops. The funny thing is that she often follows this up with a "it's too late anyway" comment, as if she's trying to remind herself that it's over. I'm not sure she believes it.

The other night, while in the midst of our deep discussion, she said to me that we don't have any money, and we will never have any money. This is the reason that we're still together today. So now she's got this other wall that's keeping her where she is. We're going on a year here, and she hasn't found a way to make money to get out on her own, and it appears that she's not really trying. Well, it's something that can go either way, but I was hoping that she could do away with her dependancy and staying (should she change her mind and decide to do so) would be truly her choice, not the absence of options.

Some points about where I am regarding my perspective on our R issues:

I placate her - I respond to her manipulative attempts to control me by allowing my fear of her withholding her love to overcome my rational perspective.
This has undermined her respect for me, my respect for myself, our financial status, our whole home environment and more. The really negative part of this is that it is integral to this cycle where I accept responsibility for her feelings, thereby my actions seem to be required to change her feelings. Her feelings are usually based on her own issues and in taking responsibility for them I rob her of the opportunity to make a positive change in her life and allow her to experience living at someone else's mercy. Well, not really mercy, because she knows she has some kind of subversive power - which is another problem, interwoven with this one. The lack of direct communication.

The lack of direct communication seems to have two possible sources - the unwillingness to articulate needs, desires, dissatisfaction, etc. and the other is the lack of awareness of these things in ourselves. The latter seems to be true in my W when it comes to her apparent dissatisfaction with our relationship. She didn't realize she had emotional needs that weren't being met until she was in an affair. She didn't realize that she was unhappy with the relationship until she was in an affair. She was quite vocal about things that annoyed her, but she never looked into herself until she was looking for something specific. She was looking for justification, facts that supported that her misery was caused by me, not feeling miserable, owning it and figuring out how to resolve it. I think a part of this can be chalked up to immaturity, to the lack of self knowledge and life experience. I know that I could have been more aware of her experience in life, but when I asked her how she was, I never got an honest answer.

I am a pretty direct person and I don't like to read between the lines because that's where I can muddle up the interactions with my own skewed perspective. I think my W is someone who wants to be read, who wants to be known. Or maybe this is just a gender difference. A woman wants someone to be attentive to them to the point that they know what is going on in their head and communicating in a straightforward way is not appealing. Men just need to be told flat out. Or maybe there's some middle ground. Maybe I need to be more willing to take risks and make a statement about what seems to be happening within my W to show her that I'm attentive and allow her to correct me and give me a straightforward idea of what's really going on. Maybe, but nowadays this is fodder for her Muddle hate, proof that I don't know her, never have, never will. Even her mom subscribes to the idea that women want a man to just know what she wants. Well, to me that's the difference between idealism and realism - what you want is not what you get, you have to be flexible in your expectations.

I have been aware of this all and as time goes on, I recognize that knee jerk reaction I have when I impulsively allow my fear to motivate me and stop it. I have been finding a kind of strength in responding to this tendency in general, and I have been far more aware of boundaries that I have neglected in the past. I am a little worse off when it comes to communication. Because communication is necessarily a two way street, it's difficult to communicate openly with someone who is trying hard to convey her lack of interest in a relationship with me. I have made a sincere effort to be aware of where I am with regard to my needs and wants that are within the scope of our current very vague relationship. I don't allow myself to forfeit my boundaries in order to gain ground with her anymore. As I am aware of her manipulative tendencies, I am aware of my own, and working to be more direct rather than coercive and underhanded.

[MuddleThrough]

Uh, what a crap couple of days. W is angry again. She brought up going away to see my cousin again. I told her that she could do what she wants, but that I don't want any part in a relationship where I'm treated like that. We'll have to find new places to live if she goes. So again, I'm the controlling bad guy. In some ways I just don't care anymore. I will not allow my actions to be dictated by her lust or other negative emotions.

I am in a tough place here because basically what my W says to me is that unless I cave in to her wants she's going to make things miserable for me. She's going to be angry, she's going to be resentful, and she's going to take it out on me. Good thing we have therapy tonight because I'm going to bring this all up. I know it's likely to give her that much more reason to be enraged and focus her negativity onto me, but it's also a good opportunity to get her issues with these negative emotions out in the open where someone who can help her can see them.

I am a little dissapointed in myself because I feel a little off center because of my W's current emotional state. I'm letting her emotive state have power over me. I'm actually feeling some fear in the pit of my stomach. Of course, now that she's exceedingly angry (it's focused on me) because I'm not going along with her plans, she takes a view of everything in my life and damns me for everything she can see. Not nice, but I'm also to blame for not managing to be more detached from it.

There's just no way out of all of this. I'm really at the point where I've given up hope that my W and I will ever get along, much less have a good marriage together. I'm still trying to focus myself on communicating and working together to get things done, but every effort I make is stymied. It sounds like an excuse, and maybe it is, but I'm frustrated that I get no cooperation regarding finding simple solutions to issues that impact our family. Rather, I get blamed for them. Now, defensively, because I'm up against a wall, feeling threatened and defensive, I'm using these facts to nurture negativity in myself that's leading me to want to run and escape this whole thing rather than creatively and productively finding solutions and resolutions to these problems.

So, tonight I'm going to bring up our problems with this therapist, and yes I may just find myself pointing to this affair and present my opinion that because she's preoccupied with looking for justification for ending our relationship so she can more easily pursue this affair, she's jumping at the opportunity to create miscommunication rather than trying to solve problems. It's functional for her to do so in a pathological way.

To me it's pretty simple - regardless of saving or ending the marriage - we have obligations to run our family. There are problems that arise in doing so on financial and social levels, etc, and we need to resolve these issues and move on. To her, having these issues PROVE that I'm a bad spouse, so it's functional for her to point this out and dwell on it, rather than find sensible solutions. So, I'm stuck in a situation where either I take on the full responsibility for EVERYTHING in the family (impossible, to say the least) or be sabotaged in my efforts to create an environment of cooperation towards these common interests.

Sorry, I'm just venting my frustration and thinking out loud here. I feel less and less productive in my attempts to find resolution here. I'm clearer than I have been in months, but I feel so limited in my ability.